[distshooter]

I have been researching the bluing threads for information on how to reblue a OOW 1928 kit. At this time I am leaning towards cold bluing ( slow rust method). The problem I have is the right side plate is bare steel. The old parts set is blued. Obviously the old bluing wil need to be removed, new RSP riveted in place, and then start the bluing process. It seems this will provide the best opportunity for the plates and rivets to aquire the same tone.
Questions: 1. How does one blue the internal sufaces as they need to be carded (lightly brushed)? There are many surfaces that will not be accessable once assembled.
2. Would it be best to rust blue with the water jacket already in place or solder it on after bluing? If the threads on the jacket were blued they would not take solder afterwords. Is there a way to 'mask' an area to prevent it from taking blue/
3. Does all the old bluing need to be completely removed or can there be light patches remaining? I am concerned about over-polishing and wiping out the numbers and other details.

Any help from those who have been here before would be appreciated.

Blane

 

[distshooter]

Right Direction

Also,
For those who have done this before, is cold bluing worth the effort or would I be better off sending it out for a hot blue? What was the original method of bluing an a '28 Colt? Though the numbers don't match and it will be semi auto, I would still like it to be historically accurate.

Blane

 

[ravenrob]

You will be MUCH happier with the results if you send it off to be done. I've lost count of the number of people that would ask us to reblue something they did with cold blueing.Sure it'll look good for a year or two, but eventually it'll start to turn brown or gray and smell like rotten eggs. And yes, I know there will be a bunch of people that jump in and say " I cold blued my blah, blah, blah, forty years ago and it still looks fine". Maybe so, they are the exceptions to the rule. And no, I am not trying to drum up business. I got out of gunsmithing years ago.

 

[PKw VI Tiger1]

I cold blued my side plate for now until I can find a good bluer in my area.

 

[distshooter]

Cold Bluing

By cold bluing, I do not refer to the modern cold bluing chemicals, but the old process used prior to the adoption of the hot bluing process. It entails light coats of nitric acid solutions. The item is then allowed to form a layer of rust. This produces a browning which is turned to black by boiling. The surface is then carded with steel wool or a stainless brush to remove the fluff. The process is repeated until the desired hue is achieved or the item no longer produces a rust layer. -- as I understand it.

Blane

 

[FTB1-SS]

Cold bluing will turn the brass black on the water jacket and trunnion so be careful.

 

[Dubiousone]

Cold bluing a large surface is tough to get right without streaks. On a 1928 with lots of little internal nooks and crannies its nigh on impossible you'll get the results you want.

If you work at it, you might get real close to the look you want but if you want it "right" I doubt you'll be happy with cold blue.

 

[Lucky#13]

Here is Nosegunner's tutorial on cold bluing by hand, with cloth, paper towels and 0000 steel wool. Worth the read!

http://browningmgs.com/Colt1928/Bluing.htm

 

[ohioblacksheep]

Blane,

From what your saying, you might be better off to refer to it as Rust Blueing.

Its my understanding thats how the original water cooled guns were blued. Its a long and labor intence process but suppost to give you a Super blueing job when done.

I would also have all to work done ( soldering) and rivited together before you start your blueing process...Like anything else, the Finish is the LAST thing you want to do after your gun is together..There are to many little things that can happen in handling your gun that could maur your finish.. I believe it was Lucky that was telling me that on original guns the inside of the rec. didn't get blued....

Brownell lists a couple solutions for the old rust blueing..They would probibly have instructings on weither or not you need to remove all the old blueing...Lou

 

[Lucky#13]

I believe it was Lucky that was telling me that on original guns the inside of the rec. didn't get blued....

Indeed, that is what Dolf Goldsmith told me. I know many, perhaps all, of the internals were "in the white" on the original guns as issued, during WWI. Hard to find examples still that way! Also, Dolf pointed out that labor was cheap then, so the long rust bluing process was just the way things were done.

 

[ravenrob]

Lou is correct. The process you are talking about is rust bluing. It is a lot of work, but if done correctly, it'll look "right".

 

[frazer42]

Hard as Nails

Trapdoor Springfield rifles and bayonets were blued in this manner and most of them still retain 95% finish. We have used the "Aqua-Fortis" method for browning and bluing several items, flint-lock pistols mostly, and the finish is damn near bulletproof. A steam vapor chamber gives the most even rust coat after the acid is applied, kinda like smoking a brisket, a steel brisket. Frazer

 

[shift-1]

cold blue or "belgian" blue

Belgian blue is basically what you are describing. I have not personally done it because of the inherent pain in the ass factor. It will take forever, a double barrel shotgun takes 10-12 hours. If a mistake is made or scratch occurs, your screwed and must start over. Just my $.02

 

[sdk1968]

yeah ive got a couple of cold bluing tutorials on this site. and with some work you can get a good job on anything.

is it as good as hot bluing?? NO

but can you do it streak free? YES

prep work is 99% of the job. sand blast all the parts equally with the same grit stuff and then go from there.

that will get them al pretty close.

of course there are some metals that just dont take out of every type of gun..

hers a pic of one of my MG42/53 builds that is cold blu treated, this is about as good as you can get it with cold blu.

and here is the last one i did... (not as shiny)

every piece of both of these builds is cold blu'd...

 

[jmann]

The original 17's were rust blued, but I am pretty sure the commercial colt guns made for the argentine contract and later used the new to the time du-lite blue. This was and still is a hot caustic salts blue. The 1939 educational contract that led to the production of 500 1911 pistols made by the singer sewing machine company lists du-lite by name. I owned one of these pistols and its finish and the original finish on 3 different 28 colt waterjackets were virtually identical. The pic below is original du-lite finish on a singer 1911.

 

[Mouse]

The original 17's were rust blued, but I am pretty sure the commercial colt guns made for the argentine contract and later used the new to the time du-lite blue. This was and still is a hot caustic salts blue. The 1939 educational contract that led to the production of 500 1911 pistols made by the singer sewing machine company lists du-lite by name. I owned one of these pistols and its finish and the original finish on 3 different 28 colt waterjackets were virtually identical. The pic below is original du-lite finish on a singer 1911.

HOLY SMOKES JMann!!!!!!

You have a Singer!?
We're not worthy, We're not worthy!!!!
Talk about a find, wow!

 

[Rory]

read again mouse, i believe that he said "owned" even still pretty rare to even have owned one..

 

[Rory]

and man that thing looks to be in perfect shape

 

[Lucky#13]

The original 17's were rust blued, but I am pretty sure the commercial colt guns made for the argentine contract and later used the new to the time du-lite blue. This was and still is a hot caustic salts blue. The 1939 educational contract that led to the production of 500 1911 pistols made by the singer sewing machine company lists du-lite by name. I owned one of these pistols and its finish and the original finish on 3 different 28 colt waterjackets were virtually identical. The pic below is original du-lite finish on a singer 1911.

I have two original 1917 rear sights, of apparently different manufacture. The color is quite different on the two. One came off of a Westinghouse, according to the fellow I bought it from, who is above question. It has a fairly dark color to it, with the face polished to the bare steel. The second sight has a much lighter, almost silvery blue color that I have come to associate with Colt. Now I don't know if the same process was used by the different manufacturers, but both are a distinctly different color than that on my Remington 1917 receiver half. I have a feeling that the second sight came off a Colt gun, but there are no markings on either sight, so I can't prove it one way or the other. My 1928 jacket was parked as I received it, but I do have the Colt receiver, still blued. Just not sure it is original finish.

 

[jmann]

HOLY SMOKES JMann!!!!!!

You have a Singer!?
We're not worthy, We're not worthy!!!!
Talk about a find, wow!

It was a beautiful gun. By far the best constructed 1911 I have ever seen. The tolerences made the pre war colts look like junk. Every part was just beautiful. I kept it a year and a week. When I sold it I took the proceeds and bought a transferable 1917 sideplate, a bm59 select fire, a stg44, and a 50th anniversary green submariner (I like dive watches), and still had the money I paid for the gun left over. Some folks like pistols, me, I like machine guns and I just couldnt make it fit into my collection. Strangely enough rock island sold one this spring for over 80k so I guess I should have kept it a little longer, but I have no regrets on letting her go. It was in sutch wonderful condition that a thumb print not properly wiped down could have cost me 5 grand. That type of gun just doesnt do it for me. I did shoot 1 round through it before I sold it so I guess I can say I have not only owned a 98% finish singer, I have shot one also.