[Ferfunwoody]

Starting to reload again.I've reloaded shells several times with out checking case length and never had a problem in my AR.Bought some once fired miltary brass and started checking case length.The cases varied quite abit.Took the longest case,resized it and dropped it in the barrel.It seated all the way in.Doe,s the military have a different case length than commertial,or is a 556 chamber different than 223?

 

[Roc Rat]

Try to keep them to specs,, you will find thes at the first page of each caliber,, then keep every one to those specs. Otherwise, besides having overlength ctgs, you will have crumpled brass when it comes to crimping the bullet. I have Sierra and Hornady manuals and both have all case lenghts printed. I have also checked new unfired military brass and have not found any measurable differences between them and commercial. The main difference is the case weight due to the heavier walled cases. that is why you should approach maximum loads carefully,, a load that is safe in a commercial ctg can be overpressure in a military ctg due to the thicker walls.

I mainly load 7.62x51, and most are un-crimped 168 SMK's. I have been getting my military brass from Scharch,, price went up, but it comes thru polished, trimmed, de-primed and pockets are swaged,,, truly ready to load.

http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/categories.asp?catid=23696

Just saw they are offering primed 223 now.

 

[Rory]

thanks roc i might pick up some of that 223 brass

 

[FloridaAKM]

The only thing I disliked about military brass was the crimp that has to be removed before reprimimg. Dillion has a tool that makes it much easier now.

 

[pdembek]

.223 Versus 5.56

There was an excellent article several months ago in I believe either the American Rifleman or Guns and Ammo regarding the differences between .223 and 5.56. If I recall the chamber for 5.56 is longer to allow for the differences in the OAL of military ammunition. The chamber is cut on the generous side so just about anything you load will chamber, a good idea for a combat rifle. The chamber length for .223 is shorter and cut to tighter tolerances to allow for greater accuracy. According to the article you can shoot .223 in a rifle chambered for 5.56 but when shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber you may run into pressure problems. If the 5.56 is sized on the long side, the round may not chamber or the bullet may be jammed into the rifling when the round is chambered.

I have fired .223 in an AR and experienced no problems whatsoever. I load all my .223/5.56 to the OAL length listed in my reloading guide and have had no issues. Wether loading .223 commercial brass or 5.56 military brass I start my loads 10% down from maximum and go up from there looking for any signs of pressure problems. Because of the difference in the thickness of military brass vs commercial you can't usually load 5.56 as hot as .223 before you start seeing pressure signs. Usually the primer will start to flatten out. If you follow your loading guide and keep your eye out for signs of excessive pressure you should be ok.

 

[brassmagnet]

Winchester ammunition statement on .223 vs 5.56

This is off of a Winchester Ammunition Press Release For LE - says pretty much the same thing as pdembek says....just verifys it.

__________________________________________________________


The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.

The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.

The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.

The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.

You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.

Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.

The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.

 

[kkkriverrats]

A couple of observations

Starting to reload again.I've reloaded shells several times with out checking case length and never had a problem in my AR.Bought some once fired miltary brass and started checking case length.The cases varied quite abit.Took the longest case,resized it and dropped it in the barrel.It seated all the way in.Doe,s the military have a different case length than commertial,or is a 556 chamber different than 223?

You don't mention using a case guage, a much better check than dropping a case or cartridge in a chamber. Case guages are very inexpensive, and allow you to check resizing, base to shoulder, and over all length. Gauges for pistol calibers will also confirm MAX OAL of the reloaded cartridge. Most case guages have MAX/MIN steps cut in each end of the guage so you can visually check lengths. Using a case guage is the best method for adjusting your sizing die. Besides headspace/safety concerns, this is especially important when reloading ammo that will be used in more than one firearm, or in semi-autos. The case guage is an important quality control tool that should be during used in the reloading process to make sure that nothing has come out of adjustment while running a batch.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, much of which depends on the intended use for the ammo. Bench rest or bullseye shooters have a whole different set of expectations for their reloads than someone shooting, say, a 1919. If you check the accuracy requirements for military Ball ammo you will see that this ammo even at spec will not satisy the needs of target shooters. The specs are a compromise between accuracy, function, manufacturing tolerances, and yes, cost. This is why the milltary loads or acquires "match" ammo for competition.

I "trim to length" every time I resize. I used to do this with a Lee hand tool and later with a Lee Zip Trimmer, both work well and are inexpensive. I graduated to a Dillon 1200 power trimmer/sizer much more satisfactory for high volume shooters. Some would consider this overkill, but I rarely experience problems that can be traced to reloaded ammo.

Most manuals recommend reducing charges in military cases anywhere from 5 to 10% to compensate for reduced interior volume due to thicker case walls I usually take the MAX charge for a propellant/projectile combination militiply by .90 and compare it to the MIN charge weight, if less than the MIN I go with the MIN shown weight as long as there is a difference of 5 to 10% below the MAX charge weight.

I have had very good results using military cases, both 5.56 and .30'06 and consider them, for my purposes, the best choice.

 

[Ferfunwoody]

Thanks for all the info.Now I know why I never had any problems with not checking overall case length when reloading for my AR.Last time I reloaded was back in the 80's before all the surplus hit the market.I do have a case length gage.I just wanted to see if the longer case would chamber in a 556 barrel.I will be checking oal and case trimming from now on to be on the safe side.It's amazing how much safer we get with age.Thanks again.

 

[Beltfire]

5.56 and .223

Correct, the only real difference between 223 and 556 is in the rifle itself. The 556 throat is longer than in a commercial 223 chamber. One should be very careful about shooting 556 ammo in a 223 bolt gun. Bad things can happen.