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Discussion Starter #1
hey guys,
i have a 8mm barrel from the ammunitionstore.com. is anyone having problems with these. as i stated in the other post im spliting cases. it doesnt seem to matter where i set the headspace. it will still split the case betwee the neck and base of the shell. i beleive the barrel is also keeping it from running correctly. any feedback would be appreciated. thanks
 

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I have one and it is chambered a little deep. For Yugo ammo anyway. But I have not had any of the probs you described. What kind of ammo are you running in it? My bolt hits the barrel before it wont lock up when headspacing for the ammo. But two or three clicks out from that it runs great on Yugo.
Big Steve
 

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My John M barrel was doing the same thing (well my splits were from the shoulder down, about 3/8 inch long). I got a ammo store barrel and the vertical splits are MUCH smaller (1/8 inch versus 3/8) with the same ammo and only on 10% of the rounds versus every round fired with the other barrel. I sent my old barrel back to John and the new one was supposed to be in the mail June 14 .......aint got it yet. The post has been holding my mail for the last week, I hope they have it.

I'm convinced every barrel may be slightly different regardless of manufacturer, but I'm no expert, just making an observation based on personal experience and what I've seen others post. I would buy another ammostore barrel but it may give different results. (by slightly, I mean by maybe 1 or 2 even 3 thousandths, not much, but enough to cause a split)

How big are your splits and how often do you get them?
 

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I have an ammunition store barrel in 8mm and have had no problems whatsoever with it. No split cases or failures to feed. Have shot several thousand Romanian 8mm rounds full auto, no prblems, FWIW
 

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There was another thread dealing with headspace a few days ago. Deep chambers will split cases and shallow chambers will rupture the case at the base. Deep chambers will require 0 clicks and shallow chambers will requre an excessive number of clicks out.
 

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BeltFedPlus said:
There was another thread dealing with headspace a few days ago. Deep chambers will split cases and shallow chambers will rupture the case at the base. Deep chambers will require 0 clicks and shallow chambers will requre an excessive number of clicks out.
Makes sense, with my John M barrel, ( which I still haven't received a replacement for after nearly a month, dang post office I think they lost it) I got a lot fewer vertical splits at 0 clicks out versus 1. With the ammo store barrel, and at one click out only 10% of my yugo rounds split. It think it may be a matter of running the gun at maybe 0 clicks out until it gets sluggish (for some barrels).
 

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Split cases

I have had split cases with the turkish 8mm in both bolt action rifle and the belt fed beast. I went to the yugo 8mm and the split cases went away. Local gunsmith examined cases and told me the splits may be due to the age of the cases and the brass becoming brittle with age. No adjustments were made to headspace on the belt fed and the splits just went away when ammo was changed. I do not run the cheap turkish ammo in the 1919 or the Mg-34, I save that for the bolt action German guns.
 

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Griffinroydonald said:
I have had split cases with the turkish 8mm in both bolt action rifle and the belt fed beast. I went to the yugo 8mm and the split cases went away. Local gunsmith examined cases and told me the splits may be due to the age of the cases and the brass becoming brittle with age. No adjustments were made to headspace on the belt fed and the splits just went away when ammo was changed. I do not run the cheap turkish ammo in the 1919 or the Mg-34, I save that for the bolt action German guns.
Bravo Griff and the best post on the subject so far. Now all you have to do is make The "Barrel Problem" Group understand these and a couple other factors relating to Split and Seperated Case and your work here is done.

Brass, the quality of the stock it was made from, age, storage and transportation all contribute to the longevity of of a Brass Cased Rd. Much the same can be said for Steel Cased Rds. to some degree also.

Brass will do well in a dry environment add moisture and some heat then dry it out and the Hydrogen and Oxygen contained in the water will have changed the composition of the brass somewhat. Now do it over and over again and walla you have weak brass. No PHd needed just 20/40 peepers and your going to see the transformation first hand.

Transportation also takes it toll and everyone has seen this everywhere they look. Take a well used machine handle that is in constant contact with human skin and you will see wear, or the ring on your finger, anything that is touched or rubbed. Now take a case of ammo that is say 30 years old packed in a container metal of other and encased in wood. Now add some type of propellent that has free movement within the case for it to move around at will. Does it abraid the case from within, well your skin did something to the handle and the ring what do you think?

Now lets look at the propellent in the casing, has all that movement, trucks, planes, ships, cranes, over the years of storage and movement within changed it in any way, you bet it has. Has it changed the Burn Rate due to the reduction in size of the structure of the propellent inside the round, only a fool would say NO.

So you have a completely different loading with increased pressures of the cartridge involved with a weakened case and you are still looking to the barrel as to the problem of your split and seperated cases. This Ain't Rocket Science Gentlemen Just Fact.
 

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Just to repeat some since it seems info. the day I was getting huge splits on yugo ammo from my John M barrel, the same ammo was tried in a german g43 which gave NO splits. How can you explain that due to the age of the brass.

I email John M and he told me to send the barrel back. I did, in early June. I immediatly ordered a ammo store barrel and tried it with a big difference in results, instead of every round splitting only 10% of the rounds did, the the splits were more like small fractures. Again this was from the same batch of ammo with different results. Age of brass? Yea ok possibly, but why different results.

Same ammo, different barrels with different results, I think it may rule out the ammo, just looking at the obvious, any other ideas from your book of rocket science? You've just read the facts.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i guess a fracture would better describe what i am having. they are about 1/4 inch long and only open just enough to see that burnt powder had passed. this weekend i hope to try out some romy 8mm and see what happens
 

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Bucknaked Racing said:
i guess a fracture would better describe what i am having. they are about 1/4 inch long and only open just enough to see that burnt powder had passed. this weekend i hope to try out some romy 8mm and see what happens
You won't get any splits from the Romy ammo based on what I've experienced. I think you probably won't get better than the fractures with the ammo store barrel. My fractures are only 1/8 inch long and only on 10% of the ammo verses every round. With my "other" barrel the splits were 3/8 inch long and .010 to .020 thou wide. A big difference in the same ammo from different barrels. Sure weak brass may be causing the fractures, but the difference in the size may be due to the barrels, at least thats what they taught in the rocket science class.
 

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acmech said:
You won't get any splits from the Romy ammo based on what I've experienced. I think you probably won't get better than the fractures with the ammo store barrel. My fractures are only 1/8 inch long and only on 10% of the ammo verses every round. With my "other" barrel the splits were 3/8 inch long and .010 to .020 thou wide. A big difference in the same ammo from different barrels. Sure weak brass may be causing the fractures, but the difference in the size may be due to the barrels, at least thats what they taught in the rocket science class.
Since your barrel is so problematic I'll take it off your hands at salvage price and I'll be generous. So tell me where to mail the $50.00 and your problem is solved:eek:
 

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Since your barrel is so problematic I'll take it off your hands at salvage price and I'll be generous. So tell me where to mail the $50.00 and your problem is solved:eek:
Well I've been waiting nearly a month for the replacement and still don't have it. I'll let you know how the replacement works out. At this point I'm not sure I even want to fire it. I may let you have the "new" barrel for exactly what I paid for it and get two more ammo store barrels. Maybe we could just do a swap for your book on rocket science. [;)]
 

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Dave B - Great Lakes Arms said:
I find this discussion very amusing....:)
LOL, I'm begining to enjoy it myself. With the obvious evidence its does seem silly to think that you will only have bad ammo, you'll never find a bad barrel. Wouldn't be the first time a chamber reamer went too deep. Fact is, barrel dimensions may not be consistant between makers. Doesn't mean that one barrel is worse than the other if they are within spec., just means there may be different results.
 

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Just wondering here.

Does anyone ever have any trouble with .308 ammo and the Izzy barrels? I know there at one time there were a lot of guys not real fond of India ammo. I think I even heard of a few blown top covers with guns useing . 308 ammo. Did all those problems go away?.. There was a guy at our Military shoot that blew up an M1 Garand in 06 trying to use some cheap surplus that I've seen before. Not very good stuff.....Lou
 

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Haven't seen any posts on bad .308 in a while. I've had great luck with SA, Wolf, and Pakistani. I only wish I would have bought a lot more Paki ammo when I had the chance.
 

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ohioblacksheep said:
Just wondering here.

Does anyone ever have any trouble with .308 ammo and the Izzy barrels? I know there at one time there were a lot of guys not real fond of India ammo. I think I even heard of a few blown top covers with guns useing . 308 ammo. Did all those problems go away?.. There was a guy at our Military shoot that blew up an M1 Garand in 06 trying to use some cheap surplus that I've seen before. Not very good stuff.....Lou
Lou my 1919 would not run more than 5 or 6 rounds on the India .308 so I gave it to a buddy and his 60 ate it up, many of the rounds were split or folded somewhat at the neck but smoked in his 60. ALOT of the Yugo 8mm is neck split right out of the case and unless you culled easy to overlook linking or setting in belts.

Hirtenberger was the best surplus .308 but long gone now. The Romy was also some of the best in 8mm and never hicuped what-so-ever. Shooting the 1919 Dirt Cheap seems to be fading fast unless someone comes up with a good conversion to 7.62X54R. This is why I'm going to a PKM as my Cheap To Shoot Belt Fed. Also just talked to a Importer yesterday and the 7.62X54R I could by for .06 Rd is now at .08 (Distribuor Cost) and expected to be .11 next year at this time. The day of the $1.00 Draft is also gone but Golf Balls are still a bargin and you can use them over if you don't loose sight of them:rolleyes:
 

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used 8mm barrell

looking for a used but not shot out 8mm barrell with correct
booster and front cartridge spacer/guide for an orf 1919a4.
thanks

john
 
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