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My Dad, brother and I are setting up a trust for our NFA firearms. Does anyone see any problems with a trust. I can not find any disadvantges to a trust. It allows use to pool our funds and share our firearms leaglly. I am buying a few items from Oaklahoma and that dealer is setting up our trust for free. He says he has a program that does it quick and easy. Any information that anyone can add will help.
 

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I don't know OK state law, but I am not sure how you can all three have access to the Trust's holdings. That being said, it is very possible that your state's trust laws allow that.

I have all of my NFA goodies in a trust.
 

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There is a trustee and trustors, the way i understand it. The trustee has control over it and can add any one over the age of 21 to it. A trustor has his or her name on the trust and that gives them the ability to take any of the NFA items on there own. So if i buy a NFA item and put it in the trust them anyone in the tust may take that item out without me being there and if there asked for paper work they can show the stamp and trust with there name on it and there coverd. If you just own it out right only that person may transport it and has to be present if it is being used. At least that is the way i understand it. Also as we add our children and we pass on the trust and items stay in the family. We will not have to pay the tax on the items as there passed down becasue the ownership is not changing just the people in the trust. If the trust is ended than who ever in the trust wants the items will than have to do the paper work and pay the tax on the items.
 

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I don't know if you call it a disadvantage or not, but the big differance between a Trust and Corp is you can sell the corp to some one or group of people and the NFA goes with it. Since the Corp still owns the NFA stuff there is no transfer taxes to pay because no ownership change occurs. Corps do cost a little more to maintain, but you can get a little liability protection there too.
 

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I wonder if the trust or corp could be a loophole in a non machinegun state:confused: I may need to look into this more, I am pretty sure security businesses can have machine guns here but no individuals, maybe I need to wonder over to ebay and price a used armored car? Hotch
 

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Corps do cost a little more to maintain, but you can get a little liability protection there too.
yeah you're right, a corporation does have limited liabilty protection, if you incorporate a business, to protect non-business assets, ie. your house, car, ban accounts etc.. in case your business gets sued and you lose. but for the use of just putting a NFA weapon in it, it's a waste of time, effort and money........you have to keep that corporation active while that NFA weapon is in, which means paying your sec. of state a fee every so many years, if you don't and that corporation is not in good standing, you have a contraban NFA weapon. not to mention you have to maintain minutes of that corporation, file a tax return each year. and all the other bureucratic requirements

with a trust, it's a one time set up, and that is it, no need to keep it up, .........once the trustee/garantor dies then the NFA weapons get passed on to whoever the benificinary is on your trust.........he/she still has to do the the paperwork just like any NFA transfer......and can't be prohibited from own that weapon, but the transfer is tax exempt, since it's in a estate,a nd being passed on.

the other positive thing about a trust, is you can list other esate assets in it, ie. house, etc.... a trust is a esate planning tool, which you might as well utlilize fully to tax some tax advatages it has.
 

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No. Sorry.
There's a 42 page thread on trusts over at arfcom:
link
Then just makes a security, or armored car corp different than say my business corp? I know in my state when we had the "Bone dry law" people found out although they couldn't get a state Liqour lic they could apply for a Federal Liqour Lic under special instances and thumb their nose at the state. Hotch

PS: I like thumbing my nose at the state, I do it at every opertunity!:p
 

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NFA trust

I have a limited liability company set up here in Colorado. I own several Post Sample firearms. Can these be passed on to my son in the event of my death, if he inherits or buys the LLC company?
 

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I am buying a few items from Oaklahoma and that dealer is setting up our trust for free. He says he has a program that does it quick and easy.
This would be my biggest concern. Unless the dealer is well schooled in trust laws in your state, you could be headed for problems. If your only concern is skipping a CLEO signature, cut and paste trusts may suit your needs, but if you have any genuine concerns about the guns survivng past your demise, it would be money well spent to get some legal advice. If the trust is not done properly, it does not exist - you can do the math from there on what could happen to your firearms.

The February and March issues of Small Arms Review have some information on trusts for NFA acquistion.
 

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There is a trustee and trustors, the way i understand it. The trustee has control over it and can add any one over the age of 21 to it. A trustor has his or her name on the trust and that gives them the ability to take any of the NFA items on there own. So if i buy a NFA item and put it in the trust them anyone in the tust may take that item out without me being there and if there asked for paper work they can show the stamp and trust with there name on it and there coverd. If you just own it out right only that person may transport it and has to be present if it is being used. At least that is the way i understand it. Also as we add our children and we pass on the trust and items stay in the family. We will not have to pay the tax on the items as there passed down becasue the ownership is not changing just the people in the trust. If the trust is ended than who ever in the trust wants the items will than have to do the paper work and pay the tax on the items.

+1....My father and my brothers set up a LLC. My little brother can take out our SBR Silenced HK UMP clone with out any problems. He is 20 but looks young so it kinda grosses people out when he whip that out at the local indoor range.
 

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+ My little brother can take out our SBR Silenced HK UMP clone with out any problems. He is 20 but looks young so it kinda grosses people out when he whip that out at the local indoor range.
Do you really mean it grosses them out, or just makes them disgustingly depressed that they aren't in his shoes?:D
 

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If ANYTHING is done wrong it will be rejected. Used to be if you threw in a dash between sub and machinegun and it wasn't there on the form originally, you'd get bounced.

On one of the HK sear transfers I did for a customer, I accidentally put in a dash between the H and the number (shoulda been H xxxx, I did H-xxxx), came back with a nice red scrawled circle around the serial number and a note saying they didn't have that number on file.

I put a line through the number, retyped the number again without the dash and it went right through. So the customer has a lasting reminder that I screwed up his paperwork first time. And I had been in bidness for over a year.

Haven't done a transfer in the last four years. I hope the move to WV has mellowed them out somewhat.
 

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I feel that the ATF will reget the trust if done wrong.
Something to consider - to thoroughly vet every trust application that comes in, it would require review by an attorney familiar with that particular state and verification that any documents claimed to be filed and/or properly completed actually were. Each trust would take weeks, months, and eventually years to verify since the backlog would swell quickly even if the taxpayers got dinged to hire an attorney for each state (which I don't believe they should be - people engaged in the hobby or business should be able to pay their own way when they choose an optional method of ownership). Getting a form through does not mean your trust is legit. According to an attorney who does this type of trust work that gave a presentation @ Knob Creek last October, an average cost for legal advice would be $2-300 barring any unusual circumstances - a small price to pay in comparison to the investment in most NFA collections.
 

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Getting a form through does not mean your trust is legit. According to an attorney who does this type of trust work that gave a presentation @ Knob Creek last October, an average cost for legal advice would be $2-300 barring any unusual circumstances - a small price to pay in comparison to the investment in most NFA collections.
Agree 100%. If I was to do a trust my attorney gets the nod over a dealer.
 
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