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Any Source for Argentine Colt/Browning/Commercial MGs?

7K views 50 replies 10 participants last post by  BRMCII 
There is no MG40 water cooled. The Colt MG38 series was the end of the line for which there would be no further need to improve on.

The Colt M1928 was a " Contract" model for Argentine only. Argentine military sent their desired wishes to Colt, Colt hashed up what they wanted for the price. Other Arg Military wanted other changes, Colt probably pushed back on the design based on tooling changes and cost. This went back and forth on the sales order with that country for over a year and a half before any guns were actually tooled up and start to be made to that final spec. How many spare barrels and parts groups and other accessories like tools and armorers parts and tool kits, sighting devices, loaders, belts, tripods ect. This would all be under one master contract called the M1928 for Argentine. Colt used subcontractors to fulfill the whole contract I'm sure, because they were a much smaller company then we all thought to get that much out the door in as short as time possible. Its just not the what 800 guns. At the same time Colt knows that the faster they get delivered, the less likely the technology improvements of the day wouldn't catch up to cancel the order. Hense, push back on more changes to what they already had tooled up for. When did Argentine actually start receiving their first guns? Probably two years past the 1928 contact request at the soonest, when did deliveries end? Probably not much past 1932-34. Dolf notes that congress gets in the mix to get their share of tax on export of guns which are noted in congressional records with some serial numbers. Sales is one part but actual delivery is another. What I mean is that they may have received 800 guns but them may not have all been marked M1928 in the context you think of what a 1928 is " IF" some of the guns went out as special designated guns. Since a special gun would not be the M1928 spec, its feasible that Colt may have marked them differently. Special designated guns are already part of the design table in the Colt factory. Could have been a future sales example. I think most of the M1928 if not all but a few are the same but not exclusively. Which doesn't matter as far as most of us are concerned, we wont ever know about those " If " they were different. To us we'll just know what a M1928 is and that will be the end of the line on that discussion for lack of better records.

I'm highly interested in Bob's affirmation that only one MG38 is in the C&R. I'm curious to know how you would know that or is that just a highly educated guess? I'm not challenging I'm just interested. I'm curious if your list of Dolf's shows the serial numbers or if that can be retrieved any way? I'm not taking about refitted side plate guns but actual Colt built guns. Because I have put my hands on an original Colt MG38 built gun and took the grease out of it and shot it. I dont own the gun and have not seen or asked about the registration paper work but the right side plate is not altered and is marked starting with C for commercial sales.
 
You are right MG40, I was just flying off the cuff in a hurry and didn't look at my further personal in-depth research notes. Now I have Dolf's book open and my notes I must read up on again because I hadn't taken it any further. Such as everyone else has mentioned the Colt sale adds reprints and which I must eventually hope to look for. I'm not authority on the subject matter like the other guys here. What I can offer is given the right amount of time, answers to questions on a certain factory built MG38 features you might have or its particular built configuration and options for better words. I have found the M1928 to be eerily close in feel and small features such as the knurling on the pins the same as the MG38 so those features do share well. However, there are details of a M1928 that I dont really even know for certain that I would like to learn here for once that Dolf book doesn't even break down into detail such as the square barrel notches and square barrel plunger spring on certain colt commerial guns, how many cut notches on the M1928 verse the early Colt commercial M1924 M1928 and later commercial production M38-40-1 and the finally the MG40. Funny my notes even mention the easy mix up between the MG40 wc and the air craft MG40. Updated: Page 322 does show the Colt commercial barrel notch and barrel locks plunger supplied on or prior to 1930, but not all the variations; there was a round barrel plunger lock as well.
 
Thanks for the transcription JMann mostly what I was looking for. May help to ID a barrel as I saw a weird one in my mix. Is there any pictures of variations or discussion of bolts on the MG38 MG40 or M1928 to help date a Colt gun?
Tom Stewert - Tex had one Transerable MG38B come through is shop last year. A quick mention on Sturm and picture on other listing for belt feds got the word out and it never made it to a formal listing. It was faught over quick and commanded an astounding price tag almost 80 clams, and that was just the gun. I doubt that was a side plate gun listed as a Colt and marked MG38B as Tom is highly reputable. The factory Colt gun I’ve handled not a side plate gun. I suppose those could have been amnesty registered and not C&R. But then that brings up another interesting questions and maybe validation, as to where were several of these guns sitting for years unregistered for that long. And the origin was told that this gun I know was sitting in a factory for years, built 7.65 Arg for export and never exported. I doubt I could talk the owner into doing a FOIA request. So that statement did interest me about C&R status.
 
Another thing vague is that the MG38 diagram only mentions steam condensing device and not the steam tube exclusively. At some point we know there are circulating pumps used on several of the special guns and I’m waiting to see a picture of one of those showing if it had a steam tube port milled into the the front end plate or not, it could be that a plug is also used when configured for the pump. It took a second visit the the gun I mention to realized I didn’t have a picture or know if it had at least an area where the steam tube hole or steam tube should be. In fact it did have a brass plug which looked like a steam tube but now realized that I wish I picked the gun up and rattled it around to hear for the bead or not. I was trying to astablish if it was one of those special purpose Colts.
 
What are the Colt serial number dating criteria? On my notes I had taken a best guess that the gun was built in 1931 for South American export. It would be interesting to see how far off I was.
 
Thanks again Jmann ! I need to find a copy of that printing. Is that the handbook or a sales booklet its in incredible shape for being that old.
The muzzle gland is the same size as a M1928 and so if you wanted to screw the 1928 flash hider on you could. He had a flash hider but it was cross threaded bugggered up so I didn't even try it. I'm pretty sure the M1928 open wrench fits both or its the same muzzle nut wrench as the M1928. I made a fun video on the gun and put it on CD, Its about 20 minutes long. I dont do youtube though and have held back making it public mainly because I'm an enthusiast not a good voice public narrator, and I used some great music in the video which will probably violate music rights and then be stripped of the audio anyway and then the Video is useless. If there is a way to upload it and make it private and not strip the audio let me know I might try it.
 
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