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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I apologize as I realize this is not an AR group that would be affected by this, but I'm willing to bet more than 1 of this group will be affected by this. I don't really see this as a solution to a problem, other than source of revenue. Anyone wishing to weigh in on, should. IMHO, No amount of regulation will change the outcome. The point is brought up there were 3-7 million braces sold. 2 mass shootings involving these type of firearms. Nothing mentioned about how a brace vs. any stock would have made a difference? Seriously, does anyone think making regulation will solve this? Last I saw there were approximately 400 mass shootings in less than 6 months so far this year.Please read the BS put out. There is a 90 day window to respond. TBH, it was also the end of last year, they tried this. Yes, It is sad "We live in a world, where there is loss of life" by anything (Unnatural). Seriously, does anyone think a "tax" or "regulation" is going to change that? Yes, I'm sure a few will profit from this. Does anyone here remember profiting from any of the previous legislation? I could be wrong, but willing to bet most would not want another overpriced sector of the gun Industry. Sorry, I've seen many of the "I remember when" , and don't want to see it again. Yes, I know how inflation works, but don't want bureaucracy to play a factor. Honestly I hope this doesn't go anywhere. Reality and history have taught me differently. Good luck and choose wisely.
 

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I’ve yet to see a single pistol brace boy used to mimic an sbr. I don’t own one. I’d just build an sbr.

just BecUse one doesn’t agree with the nfa, does not really mean that you you try to work around it.
 

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Yea , but to say something is OK today then change their minds and say it's still OK if you give me $200 and sigh the paper or you go to jail...You OK with that Rory ?
 

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I’ve yet to see a single pistol brace boy used to mimic an sbr. I don’t own one. I’d just build an sbr.

just BecUse one doesn’t agree with the nfa, does not really mean that you you try to work around it.
What is a "pistol brace boy" ?

What does "work around it [the nfa]" mean?
 

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Sadly its coming to end, pistol braces will be outlawed same as bump stocks.

On the bright side, ATF has not updated $200 tax stamp according to inflation. In 1934 $200 was alot more money.

I think soon we will see $5000 tax stamp on every NFA transfer to reflect inflation, and soon enough machineguns will go the way of the Euro.

So enjoy $200 for now.
 

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I’ve yet to see a single pistol brace boy used to mimic an sbr. I don’t own one. I’d just build an sbr.

just BecUse one doesn’t agree with the nfa, does not really mean that you you try to work around it.
It says shall not be infringed.
I'm a law abiding man but when do you say enough is enough? The ATF is not elected, they have no right to make law.

So instead they bend current laws to whatever they want.

I did not vote for anyone in the ATF, nobody else did either.

Hang together or most assuredly we shall all hang separate.
 

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It says shall not be infringed.
I'm a law abiding man but when do you say enough is enough? The ATF is not elected, they have no right to make law.

So instead they bend current laws to whatever they want.

I did not vote for anyone in the ATF, nobody else did either.

Hang together or most assuredly we shall all hang separate.
So, are you building machine guns at home without a license? That’s a legal battle that you’ll lose. I’m not interested in spending time in the grey bar hotel

to gunner: I’d like to see decisions and paperwork on these. If all images abs designs show the braces opened and attached to arms, it would make sense that they are approved and normal.
Every single one that I’ve seen in use has been folded and strapped closed to it will mimic a stock.

Again, I don’t love the NFA rules and guidelines but I’m all for following them until we can get them changed. With a Republican control of both houses and the presidency that didn’t happen, or even attempted. So I doubt that this will ever be a play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Rory, although I generally do agree with your statement. I do think it wise not to make fractures within 2A regulation. "Divided they fall" and all that. A little piece here and there. What happens when ATF decides all semiautomatic conversions are "work around"? After all in most eyes they appear to be machine guns. If tomorrow your collection of firearms went from legal to illegal. Unless you destroyed them or demiled them. How would you feel? Maybe a tax is applied after you purchase/built. No it isn't clear what direction will be taken. But the wording seems as if being led a certain way. If you read the various scenarios, I'm sure you can apply them to any firearm in the future. Let's say $200/firearm. Much more affordable than when NFA rules began. Seriously do any of the gun regulations stop people from killing? Maybe we can get a seat belt tax, or DUI tax that exempts drivers. I realize that would not change the outcome of those behaviors. If they want to grandfather these items in, I'm ok with that. I'm not ok nor will I ever be ok with changing the rules and applying them retroactively. If I am a legal law abiding citizen today, I expect to be the same tomorrow, doing the same. I see this as another small piece of 2A stripped away and/or money grab. I'm sure this will be the last🙄. Thanks for listening to me vent
 

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just BecUse one doesn’t agree with the nfa, does not really mean that you you try to work around it.
Well it all depends on how you view the world. Are we free people with Government restrictions OR do we exist as the Government allows. In otherwords, are we natural free to do something or must we get approval before doing something?

For me, as stated in 2A, you have a God given right to own firearms. The government restricts these rights. So if this is the case, then only the things specifically restricted are illegal (constitutionally or not). So there is no such thing as "work arounds" on our end. They restricted specific things and but we retain the right to anything not specifically restricted. I feel no need to follow the Spirt of the law, especially in this case. This entire NFA is a loop hole trying to call a ban a tax. After all the sprit of the law would be to ban all MGs. That was the purpose of the $200 tax which is probably like a $10K tax in todays money. So the idea that a loop hole law around the constitution should not be "worked around" is a far cry from the view of a free people. This entire situation is a loop hole in taking guns from a free people.

As pointed out, with you point of view, Semi AR15s are loop holes, pretty much every semi auto during the AWB was a loop hole, pretty much all private MG ownership is a loop hole. Loop holes are BS! Let us not forget who are the ones figuring out how to get around "shall not be infringed". We should not allow the Government to have the high ground on this debate, that we are somehow working around fair law to get what we want. They are the ones working around the best law since the 10 Commandments to restrict a free and fair but also ingenuous people.

I do agree, its pathetic that we don't have the pull to get some of our freedoms back when the Reps have control of the Government... you do hit the nail on the head there!
 

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Rory, although I generally do agree with your statement. I do think it wise not to make fractures within 2A regulation. "Divided they fall" and all that. A little piece here and there. What happens when ATF decides all semiautomatic conversions are "work around"? After all in most eyes they appear to be machine guns. If tomorrow your collection of firearms went from legal to illegal. Unless you destroyed them or demiled them. How would you feel? Maybe a tax is applied after you purchase/built. No it isn't clear what direction will be taken. But the wording seems as if being led a certain way. If you read the various scenarios, I'm sure you can apply them to any firearm in the future. Let's say $200/firearm. Much more affordable than when NFA rules began. Seriously do any of the gun regulations stop people from killing? Maybe we can get a seat belt tax, or DUI tax that exempts drivers. I realize that would not change the outcome of those behaviors. If they want to grandfather these items in, I'm ok with that. I'm not ok nor will I ever be ok with changing the rules and applying them retroactively. If I am a legal law abiding citizen today, I expect to be the same tomorrow, doing the same. I see this as another small piece of 2A stripped away and/or money grab. I'm sure this will be the last🙄. Thanks for listening to me vent
Said it way better than I could.
I forget what state it was recently, but they were pushing constitutional carry, where no permit was required for open or concealed carry. Quite a few Sheriffs were against it. Not because of safety or they think it would prevent any crime, but because "we rely on that revenue."

It's always about money. This too is about money, they can suddenly change their minds and say "now all braces are an NFA item, pay up." - The $200 does not bother me.. What does bother me is the 6-12 month wait time attached to NFA items. Those people on here who routinely buy full auto and other NFA goodies should stop and think about what MILLIONS of sudden brace applications will do to the back log. Think it'll be 8-12 months wait still? Think again. Maybe the ATF has an entirely different department that would handle SBRs but I can't help but think this will suck even for people who think braces are just a way to skirt the law.
 

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Wouldn't a semi auto 1919 or m53 or any semi auto version of a mg be a work around on the atf? How does an unelected office decide that I'm a felon all of a sudden because I have shoulder issues from my service in the marine corps??
 

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Go to gunowners.org or any forum and submit a comment, every commit is suppose to be reviewed, comment time ending early September, or just watch what happens from the sideline
 

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Putting brace on a pistol and then shooting it from the shoulder is a work around. Comparing a mg to a semi auto gun is not the same thing. Putting a brace on a pistol and the holding it to your shoulder to shoot it makes it a sbr. If you use the brace as it was intended then you are fine but everyone knows what most people do with these.
I dont think that making them illegal overnight is right either. Maybe they should inforce the rules they have and go on with life. I have avoided these stocks for this very reason. I dont agree with any of the nfa rules but they are what they are and i choose to follow them. I dont like them but i dont see them changing anytime soon.
 

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When these thing first started showing up I started seeing people use them as stocks,even in gun mags and online articles,I knew it was only a matter of time before the feds came down on them.
I have two pistols of this class and I have found a single point sling works really well.
 

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First time I saw a pistol AR it had a round buffer tube sticking out of the back and that was it. First thing they did is shoulder it! The brace just made this more practical, both for shouldering and for shooting like a pistol. The Fact that the ATF themselves said these are not stocks should not matter, right?

The day the semi 1919a4s got a popular as the pistol braces, the ATF would be coming down on them as loop holes around the MG ban. If there was no 86 ban, I doubt we would ever have semi 1919a4s. They are "clearly" a work around to that law as braces are a "work" around to the SBR laws. Semi auto AR15s are a work around too and many states including mine have banned them as Assault Weapons. They call them "weapons of war" and the fact they don't have a FA switch does not matter. They are a work around to the NFA and so should and have been banned.

All you guys saying "I saw this coming" somehow justifying what is happening are reason why we can't win any of these fights. Half the gun community is ok with the other half being banned. The Fudd Busters guy on YT has pretty much has this down: "Anything more than minimal compliance is self regulation." You guys want to self regulate us down to muzzle loading 22 LR. I also think its funny that you think that if these new devices that get banned did not get invented that the ATF would just leave things alone. That somehow we are bringing it on ourselves. I am sure the ATF and Anti-gunners would sit back happy and not try and ban more if we would just stop "working around" these laws....
 

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I guess we can agree to disagree but i dont see your point. A 1919a4 semi auto is not a machine gun any more. It is a semi auto rifle that doesn't fall under nfa at all. Just like a braced pistol is not an sbr until you put the brace to your shoulder and shoot it. That makes it an sbr. Like i said i dont agree with rules but they are what they are. A rock was a weapon of war not that long ago. Blaming the tool and not the person is whats wrong with everything argument they have.
Just saying.
 

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I guess we can agree to disagree but i dont see your point. A 1919a4 semi auto is not a machine gun any more. It is a semi auto rifle that doesn't fall under nfa at all. Just like a braced pistol is not an sbr until you put the brace to your shoulder and shoot it. That makes it an sbr. Like i said i dont agree with rules but they are what they are. A rock was a weapon of war not that long ago. Blaming the tool and not the person is whats wrong with everything argument they have.
Just saying.
You are missing that the fact that logic need not apply.... A semi 1919a4 is only different from a FA 1919a4 in that the loop hole of allowing it to be made semi auto exists. Think, sorry, feel like a liberal. The 1919a4 looks evil so it is, semi or FA you can't see the difference. They don't know what the difference is between a FA and a semi. They are the same. Can you still get bullets down range quickly? Then no difference. You think a 200RPM vs a 600RPM rate done in semi Vs FA means anything? No it does not. A semi 1919a4 is a semi until you shoot it fast or add a crank. Then its a MG in the same way a Pistol becomes a SBR by shouldering it. I have even heard liberals arguing that semi auto is more dangerous as it allows the shooter to aim better and so kill more! If you don't think a semi auto 1919a4 with a good crank is a work around the MG ban, you are just not ready for what is coming... These braces were shown to the ATF and ruled not to be stocks. You can put it on your shoulder or stick it anywhere you want, it does not become a stock.

Anything not Explicitly illegal is by default of being a free country, legal! That is my point. You guys are saying its ok if they keep making things that are legal but are similar to illegal things, illegal... then before you know it a lever action will be like a MG because it can shoot very quick next to a musket, similar to a MG. We should all be defending all legal gun stuff and no matter how you feel about shouldering a brace, the ATF has already ruled that it was legal and now is making up crap to figure out how to make it illegal. There is no end to this.
 
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