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Discussion Starter #5
Link.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=516417390



Bid History (If two bidders place the same bid amount, the earliest bidder wins)

Date / Time Amount Bidder User Name Currently Winning
10/26/2015 1:10:57 PM EST $3,325.00 pugboat11 A+(18) *
10/26/2015 1:04:53 PM EST $3,300.00 gopro88 A+(15)
10/26/2015 1:10:44 PM EST $3,300.00 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/26/2015 1:01:20 PM EST $3,250.00 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/26/2015 12:59:04 PM EST $3,100.00 gopro88 A+(15)
10/26/2015 1:01:02 PM EST $3,075.00 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/26/2015 12:45:43 PM EST $3,000.00 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/26/2015 12:31:18 PM EST $2,900.00 gopro88 A+(15)
10/24/2015 11:30:21 AM EST $2,800.99 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/26/2015 12:27:00 PM EST $2,800.00 gopro88 A+(15)
10/21/2015 5:08:47 AM EST $2,702.00 radtechma A+(6)
10/24/2015 11:29:57 AM EST $2,650.99 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/21/2015 3:18:57 AM EST $2,602.00 radtechma A+(6)
10/24/2015 11:29:36 AM EST $2,550.99 pugboat11 A+(18)
10/20/2015 9:54:53 PM EST $2,500.99 Ironhorse2006 A+(5)
10/21/2015 3:15:10 AM EST $2,500.00 radtechma A+(6)
10/20/2015 4:58:18 PM EST $2,100.00 radtechma A+(6)
10/19/2015 9:58:25 PM EST $1,999.99 Ironhorse2006 A+(5)
10/20/2015 9:34:09 AM EST $1,980.00 mbrguns A+(1153)
10/20/2015 1:08:00 AM EST $1,505.55 edss454 A(6)
10/20/2015 1:07:46 AM EST $1,455.55 edss454 A(6)
10/20/2015 1:07:32 AM EST $1,255.55 edss454 A(6)
10/19/2015 3:59:31 PM EST $910.00 gunsfordays A+(10)
10/19/2015 1:52:05 PM EST $501.00 Carguy1960 A+(196)
10/19/2015 3:59:12 PM EST $1.00 gunsfordays A+(10)
10/19/2015 1:22:41 PM EST $0.01 gska3873 A+(332)
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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12,236 Posts
I just looked at the auction, and honestly it's not a bad value. That does appear to be an original, WWII dated AMC M2 tripod, with data plate intact. No holes in the feet. That's a $700-800 pod, I think. Three belts are maybe $75-100. The confusing thing is that it pictures the AA extension in the last image, but that is not mentioned. I can't tell if that's an original or made up piece, as I've never had one. But even the good repro ones are $300-$400. But leave that out. If you figure the tripod, to be generous, at $800, and $100 for the three belts, the gun is selling at $2425. That's a very decent price, when you come down to it.
 

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Nice Tripod and T&E, spare barrel was also included in that price, those were not included for free. I just bought a clean 30 cal (non Izzy) KMP RSP ect. for $2500 w/shipping. These belt feds are getting high, I hope they continue that way, or I am screwed. I am not a fan of ORF, but without the help of these fellow board members, I wouldn't have known the difference. I am not saying this is a straight up deal, but it isn't totally out of line in my opinion.
Dan
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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12,236 Posts
Yep, I meant to add the barrel value too, so that's about another $75-$100 off, between wholesale/retail. It's a fair price, really it is. ORF guns were mostly pretty good, the standard for some years. There were some lemons, and their rep for great customer service took a hit in a couple of cases that I know, but Todd Grove was a stand up guy. He really drove the semi Browning business, and we all owe much to him. We lost him far too young.
 

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No disrespect intended to Todd Grove. I am a new guy with little access to historical info, I am sad to say, I mainly form my opinion by listening to other peoples complaints.
Dan
 

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My very first 1919a4 was an ORF from a group buy on some long-forgotten sight. $1,000 for a completed weapon, a manual, a few handfuls of Izzy links, all in a wheeled plastic case. Still have it and have never had a problem with it. Like Lucky says, complaints, moaning and feuds aside, Todd was huge in the early semi-auto build scene, especially with 1919's. There is no doubt in my mind that had he not passed away so young ORF would be a very large, very profitable company today and he would be cranking out SA conversion of every size, shape and nationality. As I recall, he had just moved and expanded his shop and his health really started to fail. I believe some of the communication problems people had came when his health was really starting to fail. He kept his illness to himself and for many people, his obituary was the first notice anything was wrong. And of course once the boss passes away, everything stops, nobody knows what to do with the stuff returned for repair, and you know the rest of the story. He was in his early 30's but managed to get a lot done in a short period of time.
 

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Yes was waiting for the S/A MK-19 he was working on he had like 300-500 kits and was working on some receivers before he passed.
I have built 3 1919's off his side plates and they run like sewing machines. S/A sewing machines but hey they run in 8mm , 308, 30-06

GW
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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12,236 Posts
No disrespect intended to Todd Grove. I am a new guy with little access to historical info, I am sad to say, I mainly form my opinion by listening to other peoples complaints.
Dan
No worries. I talked with Todd a couple of times, and bought parts he had hand picked for me. He was a good guy, and we lost him to cancer in his 30s. Tragic. But like any company, there will always be some issues with a gun here and there. How you handle the customer service aspect is the key. I didn't know him really, but I was just getting into the hobby when ORF was the big player. Their right side plates were the common standard at that time, short of the finer T&S plates. This is before KMP and Halo were on the market with .30 cal plates. But no company is perfect.

My very first 1919a4 was an ORF from a group buy on some long-forgotten sight. $1,000 for a completed weapon, a manual, a few handfuls of Izzy links, all in a wheeled plastic case. Still have it and have never had a problem with it. Like Lucky says, complaints, moaning and feuds aside, Todd was huge in the early semi-auto build scene, especially with 1919's. There is no doubt in my mind that had he not passed away so young ORF would be a very large, very profitable company today and he would be cranking out SA conversion of every size, shape and nationality. As I recall, he had just moved and expanded his shop and his health really started to fail. I believe some of the communication problems people had came when his health was really starting to fail. He kept his illness to himself and for many people, his obituary was the first notice anything was wrong. And of course once the boss passes away, everything stops, nobody knows what to do with the stuff returned for repair, and you know the rest of the story. He was in his early 30's but managed to get a lot done in a short period of time.
Got caught on the phone while typing, so adding on here. Bob, you said it quite well. That's exactly the dynamic that I perceived at the time. A tragic story, from a young man with so much to offer.
 

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I guess results vary I had dealings with Todd, some good some not so good.

But i will give him due respect for tackling big projects both feet first and sticking with them. There are alot of decent inexpensive Galils and milled AKs that rolled out of his shop. I probably bought and sold 25 or so of his semi 1919 and all of them worked well and looked good.

As far as his untimely passing I believe it was a somewhat self induced liver problem.


That extension pictured in the auction is for sale in another auction but SHHHHH dont tell anybody because im bidding on it
 

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I ended up with several unfired ORF 1919A4's years ago on a trade deal. The last one I sold last fall went for $2600.00 with the hard case. I have put several thousand rounds through the one I kept as a shooter and have had with no issues with it whatsoever. I still have one NIB that I haven't decided what to do with yet. I may just keep it until the prices get the point where I can't resist and then sell it. I would have no issue with purchasing an ORF 1919A4.
 
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