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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 1917a1 style weapon that includes a KMP 1919a4 side plate, a brass trunnion, w/ early style top cover pin and end caps and a water jacket that is dented enough to make it appear to be original. It also has the type " A " flash hider.
I cannot find any marking on the trunnion other than 01.076 stamped on the top of it. It appears the both the trunnion have been sand blasted, with sharp sand, so I might have missed minor markings.
Thanks in advance
Dan
 

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Pictures, pictures, pictures!
 

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I have a 1917a1 style weapon that includes a KMP 1919a4 side plate, a brass trunnion, w/ early style top cover pin and end caps and a water jacket that is dented enough to make it appear to be original. It also has the type " A " flash hider.
I cannot find any marking on the trunnion other than 01.076 stamped on the top of it. It appears the both the trunnion have been sand blasted, with sharp sand, so I might have missed minor markings.
Thanks in advance
Dan
It is an Argentinian manufactured (serial number #76) water jacket for a model 1928 Colt Water Cooled gun based on the stamping (01.076). Very similar to the M1917 water jacket, difference being the muzzle gland I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Pic's Soon

Thanks Guys,
I will get some pictures soon, The 1928 water jacket sounds correct, the muzzle gland and flash hider appear consistent. If my recollection is correct the LSP was not drilled for any sighting device, so I might be dealing with a bit of a ******* child here. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary for my collection.
Thanks
Dan
 

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Thanks Guys,
I will get some pictures soon, The 1928 water jacket sounds correct, the muzzle gland and flash hider appear consistent. If my recollection is correct the LSP was not drilled for any sighting device, so I might be dealing with a bit of a ******* child here. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary for my collection.
Thanks
Dan
A very economical way to build a water cooled M1917A1 gun. How authentic it will be is probably based on what top cover and other parts were used. We have a number of experts here who will comment if you display some pictures of the top cover.
 

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The Colt 28 muzzle gland and flash hiders are different but Rick at BMG parts had a special muzzle gland made to match the threads on the 28 jackets if you are trying to make it look more like a 1917. Also if you look close you may find that the holes for the panoramic sight bracket were welded up as OOW first did this when they built semi 1928's back in the day an I have seen it numerous times.
 

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Another thing that sets the 28 Colt apart from the 1917 or 1917A1 is the Colt usually has a steel insert on top of the trunnion to help prevent wear from the belt. If your left side plate has no optic bracket it's a perfect candidate to turn into a 1917A1! As Tooly stated - the muzzle gland from Rick at BMG will make the muzzle end look correct for a 1917A1.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A Few Pics

Thanks to your help I have narrowed it down a little. It does appear to be a 1928 water jacket assembly, although I have not located the steel insert on the trunnion. The barrel and the extension are 1928 #722, wide slot and locking pin. The bolt is a Westinghouse w/ A 21817 on the bottom in large stamp, the extractor is a C8454 11 RIA. The grip appears to be bakelite. It has a 1919a4 KMP RSP. The LSP appears to be new, It is very clean on the inside, the back section has signs of being heat treated, and definitely no holes have been plug welded. I believe the top cover is from a 1928 #448. I was told John Mcguire built this gun, but I do not know for sure. Thanks again for your help. Dan PICT0596.jpg PICT0595.jpg PICT0590.jpg PICT0591.jpg PICT0592.jpg
 

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Dan the left side plate is either USGI or new made the Colt 28's were different and you have the 1917A1/1919A4 bottom plate as well so it appears it was made to look like a 1917A1 but they used a few parts from the 28. I think I know this gun and if it is the one I am thinking of then John did build it, did it come out of Ohio by chance? Russ
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ohio is Correct

You have a good eye Russ. This gun came out of Delaware Ohio.
Dan
 

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Thanks to your help I have narrowed it down a little. It does appear to be a 1928 water jacket assembly, although I have not located the steel insert on the trunnion. The barrel and the extension are 1928 #722, wide slot and locking pin. The bolt is a Westinghouse w/ A 21817 on the bottom in large stamp, the extractor is a C8454 11 RIA. The grip appears to be bakelite. It has a 1919a4 KMP RSP. The LSP appears to be new, It is very clean on the inside, the back section has signs of being heat treated, and definitely no holes have been plug welded. I believe the top cover is from a 1928 #448. I was told John Mcguire built this gun, but I do not know for sure. Thanks again for your help. Dan View attachment 13160 View attachment 13161 View attachment 13162 View attachment 13163 View attachment 13164
The Argentinian water jackets did not (IMHO) have the steel insert in the trunnion. I have also seen a few 1928 Colt water jackets that did not have the steel insert also but do not know if that was because the original trunnion wore out and was replaced with an Argentinian trunnion which was stamped with the original colt serial number.
 

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Does the LSP have Flaming Bomb stamp on the top edge? If so, where is it located? Every real RIA LSP I have seen has the stamp present.



The LSP your gun is not from an Izzie kit as it has the narrow 30.06 belt holding pawl. The brass trunnion is Argentine manufactured as it has a "01." serial number prefix and has no bunter plate steel insert.
 

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If you get a GI Topcover and rear sight leaf, feed pawl, swap out the muzzlegland for one of BMG parts GI look alikes It will look correct as a GI 1917A1. Only us 1917 snobs or someone reading the engraving would know otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
There is not a flaming bomb mark on the LSP. I figure the LSP must be a new copy, the edges on all the sides are too clean, not a ding anywhere. I don't believe it is a 1919 LSP, there is no evidence either inside or outside of the plate being welded where the holes for the rear sight bracket would have been. If I was guessing I would say the bottom plate in also new.
I paid about $3600.00 for it and a Vietnam era M122 tripod T&E and pintle, I am happy, I wanted a water-cooled belt fed, and this fit the budget, just a toy.
Thanks for your help
Dan
 

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Fixed photo link in post #12 above.
 
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