[phalanx]

Have you noticed all the kits are drying up?
I looked at all the suppliers and everything is out of stock ,some saying they are not going to re-order.
This VZ 58 really broke the chain ,last week everyone had kits for these ,this week no one does and will not even talk to you about it.
I knew ATF was watching this rifle when it came in ,15in barrel with a wield on to put it at 16in ,no bayonet lug or FH.
Plastic triggers that are prone to fail ,people were buying up the kits left and right to make the gun what it should be.
Even the forums are saying this , ATF didn't want to approve this rifle, and i don't believe you will see much out there until after the election of one of the 3 stooges.
The 58 was a great rifle ,but what is being imported is a badly neutered POS.

 

[blackrifles]

Phal,

You're right on. I'm hearing scuttlebutt that there will be some kits coming in here and there, will be gone fast, torched or NO barrels, no receiver pieces (or if it has it) lower receiver, better than nothing and hope they clear customs BEFORE the gate is perm closed.

Hey, isn't practically every "MG clone" (approved by FTB) that's imported a bastardized nightmare?

 

[phalanx]

My friend in Canada who sells the Norinco M14 told me if it even makes it in here it is going to be a joke.
Non detachable 10 round mag ,no FH or lug ,basically a sight poking up.
Polymer parts like the VZ 58 thrown together to get them in fast.
Like the SIG 556 ,sure it is a good gun ,but early imports had major problems ,SIG did fix this ,but it only shows what is going on here.
MSAR STG 556 ,it burst onto the market as the answer to anyone who ever wanted an AUG.
Total POS ,prone to cracking the receiver and now you cant give one away,and it is made here!! I have seen these fail ,an AUG clone trying to be something ,you get better built stuff from a flea market.
Between now and January 2009 i bet you see a lot of (the newest and the greatest ) on our market ,trouble is what are you getting and what favors did the exporter meet to get them in here ?
The guy in Canada thinks within 3 years they will be able to get better guns than we will.
SCOTUS ? Oh they will rule on the 2nd in favor of us ,they have no choice ,but the Feds will ignore it because it isn't in their agenda.

 

[phalanx]

Firearm sales and manufacture is a profit/profit business , A rep from FNH told me in 2005 they geared up for some civilian sales.
They know they can make money in that market ,but basically only in the USA.
He said they had to re-tool to make semi versions of their line of FA rifles.
All of them did ,even having to put up with the AC ,DC rules of ATF ,that seem to change on the fly.
He said later in 2005/2006 they could never predict that the 2008 election would have the people in it that it does now.
After July of this year FNH will no longer produce semi variants to their line of FA rifles.
H&K is saying the same ,the SL8-6 is their last production.
If we don't feel good about the three stooges ,why should they feel any better?
He also told me the reason they abandoned Winchester was because of the UAW ,Lawyers,and ATF ,BS relating to a stupid 94 rifle.

 

[toolmanhd]

I agree, this election is going to tell all.
I think we all better buy as many kits as we can get our hands on
before it's too late!

 

[762x51]

Did you guys miss this thread regarding the vz58??


http://www.1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15530

 

[bullseye]

My hope is that the suppliers are also waiting on the batf reform bill which could allow barrels again or what could happen if hitlery is involved, help in confiscation of everything that holds ammo including the cans

 

[phalanx]

762x51 ,i read that thread , and i have been watching this VZ 58 that ATF basically neutered before it could come in.
When FNH and Sig are just waltzing through the door.
ATF ,according to reports ,looked at this rifle and said we didn't need another AK clone coming in for the criminals to buy up. So you end up with a rifle no better than an SKS calling itself the king of AKs.
Thus the kits , last Monday everyone had one to sell ,as of Friday you see in big red letters ( out of stock ,no intentions of reordering).
The sellers of these kits will not even talk to you about it.
Go to your search engine and type in VZ 58 parts kits and see for yourself.
If you do find one it is out of site on price ,and you see lots of dummy guns now.
In the rush before the election these normally well made rifles were jammed into production, If you have one ,watch the DVD that comes with it and read about all the problems CZ had in getting this gun to operate in semi.
It seems the problems are now showing up ,imported guns have a plastic trigger that in some cases will break ,or if you do not fire the gun according to the DVD it will jam.
What most Americans and Canadians were hoping for was not another AK ,but a rifle more along the lines of the famous German STG-44 ,which this rifle really is.
We ended up with just another 7.62x39 SKS with a pistol grip.

 

[762x51]

phalanx

Yes, I looked at the CD that CZ sent with the guns and for the life of me I couldn't understand why anyone would have converted the trigger over to plastic. There was one guy that posted that his disconnector had come out of the trigger and he couldn't get his action open because the weapon was cocked and he couldn't get the top cover off. Rapid Fire has had several folks ask if their trigger would work in the CZ guns - Guess that's a real problem area with them.

The last time I spoke to Todd at Rapid Fire about the vz58 testing, he said the prototype had fired over 5,000 rounds and the only problems they have had was caused by a defective magazine. I know I ran 5 magazines through it as fast as I could pull the trigger, the barrel got so hot that you couldn't hold the forearm, and it just kept on firing.

The prototype has been purposely abused and it just keeps on ticking.

I do know that the fire control group that I designed for this project appears to have solved a lot of the problems that CZ experienced and we have had none of the misfires or jams that they had. Guess we did something right....

Orin

 

[phalanx]

In a Canadian Gun Magazine a CZ rep talked candidly to a reporter ,as Canada saw the 58 nearly a year before we did.
The first rifles were nothing like you see now ,they were the sons of the STG-44. in SA.
In talks with ATF ,CZ almost had it done ,then we had VA tech ,and the Mall idiot.
Everything CZ had been working on got passed to a different person ,everything changed, And law abiding citizens in both country's were denied what could have been the most collectible import rifle in 15 years.
A gangsta isn't going to walk into an FFL store and fork out $600.00 and up for this ,he will steal it or use his AK.
Thus ,CZ instead of tooling up and making the rifle this should have been ,began building ATF approved poodle shooters from old stocks left over from the COM Block years in order to satisfy demand.

 

[762x51]

I guess I'm missing your point.....( Nothing new - I do it all the time - )

The vz58 that I have is EXACTLY like the vz58 that the Czech army carries except it will not fire FA and it does have a muzzle attachment that's welded on.

It has every feature of the Czech army vz58 - Bayonet lug, 30 round magazine, and so on. Even the markings on the receiver are copied from the original vz58.

This is by no means a warmed over SKS..

Orin

 

[phalanx]

Orin : i have read some articles about the rapid fire guns ,and you guys seem to have had to pick up the fumbled ball and run with it.
Of course i haven't seen your gun ,but i have seem a lot of the VZ 58s ,and when they fail it isn't something little like a mag.
I had a photo of one of the first guns imported into Canada ,it had all walnut furniture ,the bayonet lug ,and a FH.
The finish wasn't bake on paint ,it was a park the same color as it should be.
It was as close to an STG-44 as you could get without finding a Nazi.
The original intent was to do this ,anything to set it apart from an AK. and another stab in Moscow's eye that the AK really was a German design.
The guns would have gone for $1200.00 ,and from all i had read were worth every dime,some were even offered in 7.62x45 as mean a round in a carbine as the 7.62x25 is in a pistol.
Just more of our Gub.protecting you from yourself.

 

[phalanx]

Sorry Orin ,its just i look at your rifle and hear you describe it ,then i look at this plastic trigger , krylon paint job poodle shooter i got conned into trading for and it makes me sick ,this is nothing like what you have and posted pics of.
This is why i researched this farther ,i should have done that first.
I am not going to even shoot this so i can sell it as NIB.
If i cant have one like you have then i don't need this Carp.
P.S. mine looks nothing like yours , mine looks like what i said ,a cheap sks with a pistol grip.

 

[762x51]

We have just got to be talking about 2 different guns.

The STG-44 has a stamped metal receiver that takes down much like the HK-G3 and uses a tilting bolt kind of like the BREN or ZB series guns.

The vz58 uses a milled receiver, takes down like the SKS, and uses a bolt with a locking system like the Walther P38.

Apples and Oranges...

Orin

 

[762x51]

Looks like we were typing at the same time -

Glad you looked at the photos - I just knew there had to be some mis-communication somewhere..

Hopefully you can sell the one you have and get one of ours...

Orin

 

[phalanx]

I know the STG-44 was what you say ,but as far as looks a lot of people say the 58 closely resembles one in its signature.
In the gun reviews i read they say the same ,that it is closer to a 44 than an AK.
To me the STG-44 looks more like an H&K.
Selling this and getting one of yours is exactly what i intend to do ,for instance ,an M1A without a lug to me just isn't an M1A even if i don't even own a Bayonet ,it isn't the same.

 

[762x51]

<SNIP>To me the STG-44 looks more like an H&K.<SNIP>

Agreed.... I don't see any resemblance between the 2 at all. NONE....
Well, yes they both do have a stock and barrel.........

Orin

 

[blackrifles]

Orin,

Haven't seen the internals of the VZ58, externally I see some aspects of the STG-44 design. I think Phal's pointing out the STG-44/MP-44 started the whole Cetme-HK family.

Take a look at Cetme FCG, tell me it's not very close to MP-44, that's where they got the idea, and copied a lot of STG-44 features on the Spanish Cetme. Cetme design was taken back to Germany, fathered the G3, HK33, and MP5 series.

A lot of STG-44 external parts will fit the HK93 quite easily, Kate on weaponeer.net has done it, and it's a real nice hybrid.

 

[phalanx]

Orin you there ?
I went to that site that did the testing on the 58 to find out what they were talking about by comparing it to the STG 44.
It was the end of the barrel ,the front sight and just the way it looked.
They also said a lot of the internals were along the same lines as the German rifle ,and its point of aim in how it feels when you shoulder it.
To be honest i have never held a MG44 ,i have seen them behind glass,but that is it.
The interesting part is that the 58 started out as a model 52 in 7.62x45 ,now that is an interesting round.
In looking at your prototype ,on the furniture ,how did you get it to look so good ? if it is an industry secret i understand.
The texture on this one is grainy ,like a coating has been rubbed off over time.
Just my thoughts but a coating of satin polyurethane ,let it dry then steel wool it smooth ,then coat it again wouldn't hurt the guns appearance.
Maybe tone the red tint down a little with a dark wood stain you let dry hard then coat it.
Also your finish looks 100 times better than that gray ,even if it isn't original we are not talking about an 1873 Winchester here.

 

[762x51]

Yep, I'm here -

You keep mentioning the site where they compared the vz58 with the STG44 -

Please post a link so I can go read what was said.

Regarding the finish on the stock - All I did was remove the parts from the plastic bag they came in, wiped off, and installed on gun. Nothing more. The finish on the metal parts is "Gun Coat" color is HK Blue/Grey. We sandblasted the old paint off then simply sprayed the Gun Coat finish on and let dry for 24 hours.

Orin