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Discussion Starter #1
So- Looks like I am buying this 1919A4 - C&R. local gun. To those who have seen original rivets, do these look original ? Gun was a 1942 Contract according to Serial No. in dolf's book. Currently the gun has a lot of newer version parts ( like top cover latch, front sight) and is in great ( to great ) a condition in my opinion to not have been rebuilt. It is papered as an original Saginaw, and I am getting a great deal - Without going into details, I know where the current owner got the gun, and I am pretty sure it was Rebuilt at RAMO in the 80s. I will try to post more photos. Comes with a WWII tripod, etc we can discuss that later-
99253
99254
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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Always harder to tell from just pictures. The SG bottom plate rivets tend to be a lower, flatter profile on the dome, so those do look about right. I am attaching a couple of pics, one is a receiver that is at the RIA Museum, my photo. The other is scanned from Dolf's Vol I, and that example has the flush front top plate rivet like you pictured above. Seems both can be found in SG examples, though my bet is they domed the fronts as well for the most part.

100_5050.JPG 100_5051.JPG A4 2.jpg
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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Further discussions offline with another member who is expressing some doubts as to that side plate. The one in Dolf's that I posted has always given me some qualms, and that's the one most similar to yours. If I can make time tomorrow, I'll dig out my own original receiver and some side plate chunks. Other member tells me he has serious concerns about the engraving on that, MG08, as well as serial stamping font. Will try to add more tomorrow.
 

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I can't comment on the rivet shape and whether the top plate front rivets are flush or domed. But, here's a pic of a cut sideplate (from a gun clearly held by the Israelis at some point) and the nomenclature is different. Also looks like the font is different.
1919A4 cut plate.jpg
 

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First thing I’ll say is I’m no expert but...

I’ve got 4 original Sag 1919A4 and all have the same markings which are different to this C&R.

what I notice about this plate is the lack of stamps. There’s the ABQ but no ordnance stamp or any others. I also (as said) notice the font is different, for example the 1 and 0. Note the alignment of the lines are out, if you pick any letter on the original and look at where it aligns with the letter above and compare that to the C&R, they are all out. Last thing is the SAG marking, has any one seen it abbreviated to CORP? I’m pretty sure all mine are marked in full.
 

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I have to agree with Brit plumber and Oreo I have a bunch of SG engravings and the font is the same on all of them and different from the one on the C&R gun posted.
 

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My Saginaw 1919a4 C&R has “CORPORATION” spelled out. The font looks off to me.

If you look at it check the inside of the plate for markings.

Matt
 

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Do the Rivets look the same on both sides of the Bottom plate, inside and out?
 

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Hold on, Brit plumber, 4 is too many. Go ahead and send one my way.
you don’t want any of mine, They’ve been neutered with a rod in the barrel. The good thing is though, they have complete original receivers so good for reference.
 

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Yep, rod in the barrel (welded in) and a slot on the underside through the chamber. The bolt has the face cut to 45’ so it can’t support a cartridge. I’m lucky in a way that these were done about 35 years ago so the my can be stripped. Later guns had the barrels welded to the trunnion. These are now classed as defectively deactivated so I can’t sell/gift/ leave in my will to anyone unless they are re-deactivated to the new standard (being welded solid and that’s not going to happen on my watch).
 

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Yep, rod in the barrel (welded in) and a slot on the underside through the chamber. The bolt has the face cut to 45’ so it can’t support a cartridge. I’m lucky in a way that these were done about 35 years ago so the my can be stripped. Later guns had the barrels welded to the trunnion. These are now classed as defectively deactivated so I can’t sell/gift/ leave in my will to anyone unless they are re-deactivated to the new standard (being welded solid and that’s not going to happen on my watch).
Secrets are good for this reason dam ATF
 

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Yep UK based so opposite to the USA, as in we have the intact receiver but cut barrel and bolt and you have a cut receiver but intact barrels and bolts. It’s a back to front world we’re in.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well, rivets on inside and outside on both L & R plates are identical. Bottom plate has an "S" and a "M" ( smaller and 90deg to S) All parts on the gun are late war, top cover latch, front sight etc. No other "maker" marks on the inside or edges. The gun came here to the state in the early 90s. Left plate has a two tone parkerizing with the back 2 inches darker. I am still collecting examples of plate info- Finish on the entire gun is clearly redone, with most parts a matching color. Color looks to be the original grey greenish tint. Prety sure seller rebuilt the gun before it came to current owner. No indications of plate welding and the wear / dings etc one would expect in an older gun are present under the park. I will update this as I get more info. FOIA request may or may not clear it up-
 

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Here are the markings on my guns. One has the original finish which other than being converted to an L3 is original. One has been converted to A6 spec by RIA I think and had a European refinish along with my other gun.
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069F6842-7D02-4522-9C0A-6B9E7CDF8074.jpeg
C972832F-0BD8-48EE-B164-079C0FA17354.jpeg
 
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