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....


Hey mrkubota, good to see you chime in. Been a while since we used to shoot together, and with Darin. Angeles, Lytle Creek, Red Mtn... long time ago. I've seen a couple of variations on this concept, and even had drawings for one that I never followed up on, but of unknown origin. The one cool thing about the T-13 is that it is an Ordnance Dept design.
Yep...good times... miss the build parties!
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PhD in Over-Engineering
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Oh my, I remember that picture. There are some very familiar faces in that picture, though it's hard to make them out. There's you, myself, Darin, George, a few who haven't been here in years. Dang, that makes me feel old! And the build parties, those were the days. I still have pics of a couple of those parties.
 

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Lucky #13,

I'm still here behind the iron curtain and certainly miss running into you at the SAR Show and the old shoots here in So Cal.

I can't remember why it was a no no to put an A6 stock on a 1919. What law made that an issue? My memory sucks. It's almost impossible to keep all these laws straight. I screwed up and registered my M2's back during the 50BMG AW registration.

I guess I'll see how this pans out and plan accordingly, but please help me remember why the A6 configuration was/is a no no.

Thanks,

Brian
 

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Buttstock on a 1919a4,,, just inconvenient, when you have it mounted in a vehicle or on a tripod.
Kalifornia law does not say you cannot convert,,, the,,, a not a rifle, a not a pistol, a not a shotgun into a rifle, so 1919a4s maybe off the hook with a 1919a6 buttstock. This continuing to get revised Wikipedia entry ( Barrel shroud - Wikipedia ) has a description of what ""barrel shrouds"" are. (Some of this wiki posting wording, was plagiarized for the laws description of a ""barrel shroud"")
A barrel shroud is an external covering that envelops (either partially or full-length) the barrel of a firearm, to prevent unwanted direct contact with the barrel (e.g. accidental collision with surrounding objects, or the operator accidentally touching a hot barrel, which can lead to burns).[1] Moving coverings such as pistol slides, fore-end extension of the gunstock/chassis that do not fully encircle the barrel, and the receiver (or frame) of a firearm itself are generally not described as barrel shrouds, though they can functionally act as such.
A handguard is a type of (often only half-length) barrel shrouding that is designed specifically for the operator to grip more frontally on the gun for better stability and control.
Full-length barrel shrouds (his has a picture of a MG42) are commonly featured on air-cooled machine guns, where frequent rapid bursts or sustained automatic fire will leave the barrel extremely hot and dangerous to the operator. However, shrouds can also be utilized on semi-automatic firearms, especially the ones with light-weight barrels, as even a small number of shots can heat up a barrel enough to injure an operator in certain circumstances.
Barrel shrouds are also used on pump-action shotguns. The military trench shotgun features a ventilated metal handguard with a bayonet attachment lug.[2] Ventilated handguards or heat shields (usually without bayonet lugs) are also used on police riot shotguns and shotguns marketed for civilian self-defense. The heat shield also serves as an attachment base for accessories such as sights or sling swivels.

The underlined portion, may exclude M2's, as you can have unwanted direct contact with the barrel
For 1919a4's, maybe mill the barrel ""shroud"" so you can have that unwanted direct contact with the barrel ?
In Kalifornia, adding a stock to a M2 in 50 bmg caliber, to make a M2 in caliber 50 bmg rifle, is a no no.
Because when Mr Arnold "Terminator" was Governator, he signed a bill, outlawing .50 caliber bmg RIFLES.
Other caliber rifles, made from .50 bmg cartridge brass, like .510 DTC or .416 Barret, ARE legal in Kalifornia
If you had a M2 in caliber .510 DTC, and added a stock to it make a rifle, it probably would be legal to own.
Likely in Kalifornia, any firearm, with an ignition source, other than by flint or rope, will be called a AW.
 

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A6 configuration makes it a rifle by definition ( ability to be fired from the shoulder)
At the time that was what made the 1919's and M2's crew served weapons without the capability to be fired from the shoulder.
That and the triggers are not below the action of the gun but behind it.
 

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They passed this law, in a budget meeting. That meeting did not allow public opinions to be heard, PURPOSELY.
California SB118, Same meeting they passed more anti-gun laws ""(like some parts in the future, will be needing a DROS to get) Anyway here is the new, that MAY apply to us, as of Aug 6th 2020 law, that became law immediately after being signed by Kalifornia's Governor Newscum.
30515.
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that does not have a fixed magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(H) A second handgrip.
(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
 

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They passed this law, in a budget meeting. That meeting did not allow public opinions to be heard, PURPOSELY.
California SB118, Same meeting they passed more anti-gun laws ""(like some parts in the future, will be needing a DROS to get) Anyway here is the new, that MAY apply to us, as of Aug 6th 2020 law, that became law immediately after being signed by Kalifornia's Governor Newscum.
30515.
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that does not have a fixed magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(H) A second handgrip.
(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
You are quite right, that they passed this one in a grab bag bill with all kinds of other things from Gun Precursor Parts to Pharmacy management. While I most certainly object to this type of legislating, the fact of the matter is in CA they could have stood on the street corners of any major city shouting they were going to do it and received little other than cheers. They could have done a ballot measure (and have for other anti-gun measures) and won by a handy margin. (which they have in the past) They could have called for a roll call vote in the State Legislature with 30% of the Democrats locked outside and STILL would have won by a landslide. At this point the ONLY thing that is clear is that CA has NEVER seen a gun ban it didn't like. That's just the reality. Californians by and large don't care about firearms rights and those that DO only want to take those rights away from others as fast as they can. Just a fact.
 

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(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
Makes the shroud discussion irrelevant. Looks like I will have to take the top shelf out on the safe. While an A6 gun will look a little stupid, it could still be transferred, passed down to kids and might avoid the next step with newscum which would be confiscation. Almost two years left to decide the best course of action or hope for a hail Mary court decision.
 

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has anyone made a barrel support like on the M2 for the 1919 to get rid of the shroud?

then lighten the barrel to reduce the need for the booster?
Somebody here was supplying the barrel support and machining down the barrel from 8 lbs to 3 1/2 lbs so the recoil would cycle the gun. I've got one and it looks pretty cool but it's not good for high rates of fire due to heating. I can't find my pictures after it was parked and on the gun.
Greg
IMG_0789.JPG
 

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And it will be very time consuming to register these.....
It was all done online and for some, time consuming because of CA DOJ ineptness.
The last registration was for scary bullet button magazine release semi auto rifles, that became reclassified as AW's.
You created a CFARs ( California Firearms Application Reporting System) account.
You filled out the form. You attached some pictures, You paid a fee. You waited a few months (for some years) to get conformation of registration. You figured out the staff, working on these submissions, were idiots.
Poor public notice of this law, will make many honest owners criminals, because they did not hear about it.
Now that you have a AW, you can only transport via strict rules. Like,,, Point A to range B. No bathroom stops.
Gray area, not having a registered gun, that became a AW when law was signed and before deadline to register.
 

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Possible work around on 1919a4. Mill the original barrel jacket top and bottom (after attachment point at receiver to near attachment point of the booster), to allow somebody the ability to burn their hand. Or new fab a tube (no holes) into a barrel jacket, to get proper support of booster, and still maintain the ability to burn your hand. LOL 1919a4T (tube barrel jacket.)
 

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It was all done online and for some, time consuming because of CA DOJ ineptness.
The last registration was for scary bullet button magazine release semi auto rifles, that became reclassified as AW's.
You created a CFARs ( California Firearms Application Reporting System) account.
You filled out the form. You attached some pictures, You paid a fee. You waited a few months (for some years) to get conformation of registration. You figured out the staff, working on these submissions, were idiots.
Poor public notice of this law, will make many honest owners criminals, because they did not hear about it.
Now that you have a AW, you can only transport via strict rules. Like,,, Point A to range B. No bathroom stops.
Gray area, not having a registered gun, that became a AW when law was signed and before deadline to register.
Now all of that was for well known ak and ar type weapons. Wait until you have to photograph belt feds with historical markings and other quaint characteristics. I am pretty detailed oriented and still had to submit additional info on both guns I registered last time. This will be lower volume but a bunch of work. The part I like least is you can only have one registered owner, makes your spouse a criminal if they can open your safe without you being there.
 

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President Ms Harris, will make sure CA's anti-gun BS laws, will become the BS anti-gun laws of the land.
(Hint do not vote for Democraps)
If not her, since CA's current Democrap Governor Newscum, has political desires and knows voters are trainable sheep, he will run for Pres. in 2024 and backdoor anti-gun laws.
All owners of beltfeds, are at risk of harassment, for political gain, Kalifornia is proof of that.
As Kalifornia is known, as the front runner of all anti-gun legislation, many states will follow Kalifornia's lead.
Enjoy your beltfeds and other scary guns. The politicians (mostly Democraps) will school the public into thinking they are weapons of mass destruction, thus needing registration and confiscation if you use it, legitimately.
Ref CA policy on DD's. You can get the ultra rare CA permit to own one, but do not plan to ever shoot it.
Because, if you ever do shoot your DD, it can get confiscated. (to get a CA DD permit, you agree to not shoot it)
 

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Somebody here was supplying the barrel support and machining down the barrel from 8 lbs to 3 1/2 lbs so the recoil would cycle the gun. I've got one and it looks pretty cool but it's not good for high rates of fire due to heating. I can't find my pictures after it was parked and on the gun.
Greg
View attachment 101239
Prince 50 did the support and barrel machining if I remember correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Man, when I started this thread I didn't know that so many of the old time shooters were going to show up!

Good to see that you guys are still around and checking in here. Maybe we can get a shoot going out in the desert, maybe next year in the spring time?

Hey George, do you still have the hummer? Always awesome driving around in the desert with the M2 mounted on top!

The pic that Ben posted from one of the desert shoots, great times.
 

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On the “ hopeful” side, Judge Benitez will be hearing arguments starting today to do away with the AR ban altogether as unconstitutional. As judges go, he seems to have a pretty strict interpretation of the constitution and has already made a few rulings that support 2nd Amendment in the People’s Republic of California.

California liberalism is a cancer that spreads to other states as people get fed up and leave, but show up in your state with a lot of lingering liberal ideals. Our fight today is your fight tomorrow. You had better wake up and start getting organized now.
 

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Bob, your hatred of Californians is misplaced. We are seeing anti-gun measures in record numbers in a great many states other than CA. We have seen a mag ban in CO, AW bans pushed in FL, VA, WI, OR and others. Taking Gun Control to the People After Parkland
It is NOT a particular state's people you have to rail against, but rather PEOPLE in general. POPULATION is the enemy, not people from a particular state. Look all across the country, we are seeing increases in population that lead to gun bans. Take the most "red" small town or city you want. If we doubled or tripled the population (with people from anywhere) don't you think we will see a rise in urban crime? And thus a rise in the resentment towards guns? And with 3x the people, you will have 3x the urban sprawl. Just where are you going to SHOOT those rifles we all treasure so much. For example, from downtown LA, you'd have to drive a solid hour or more in any direction to find a place to legally shoot a rifle outdoors. And that would be all of THREE ranges (one of which is private with a 2 year waiting list). For a city of over 10 MILLION, you have a whole 3 ranges within a hour's drive. A bit like owning a sailboat in the desert. Look at anti-gun laws. Yes, CA is the most populace state by a LONG shot and... it has the most gun laws. Up next - NY also next on the population chart. It pretty much follows gun laws and anti-gun sentiment goes up with the population. And it doesn't matter where the people come from. Hell most people in NY city have never lived in CA, but they managed to find a hatred of guns all by themselves.
 

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Worth pointing out that Bob knows CA, its population and dynamics very well. As do I, given I am L.A. born and raised and lived over 50 years there. I've known BobNPrc for 15 years, and don't think he was expressing hatred of CA. I know he remembers the same state that I grew up in, when we had the likes of Ronald Reagan as governor. But what most people seem to forget- or never knew- is that California was turned into the liberal population morass because the east coast liberals- from states like NY, MA etc- moved out to the golden state and worked tirelessly for decades to create what we now see. Many of those Californians moved to WA, OR, CO and brought their liberal policies with them. It spreads, there is no question about that in my mind.

Cal.BAR, you are correct on your point about people and population centers. It's no accident that Obama and others on the left want to urbanize and destroy the suburbs and rural areas by spreading the government housing projects everywhere. That Obama program was in the news recently. Even in the Trump Admin we saw untold tens of thousands of illegal aliens with their bogus "refugee" claims getting shipped all across the country to live, giving them every opportunity to disappear and never show for their hearings. This because the courts have issued poor rulings and the legislative fixes we need can't get enough votes even from Republicans. So the more our population grows in large centers, it does create the dynamic you describe.

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. " - Thomas Jefferson
 
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