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Discussion Starter #61
You hit the nail right on the head Rollin! CA got F'd up by east coast carpetbaggers and their liberal B.S.

People that say vote them out don't have a clue about how hard that is! Even if Reagan was still the Gov, it wouldn't matter! He wasn't exactly gun friendly and made his feelings known.

Republicans are just as bad as Dems, can't stand either side and we're always stuck with the lesser of the two evils!

Hopefully Benitez will get something done and there might be some light at the end of the barrel.

Anyway, who wants to go shooting in the desert next spring?
 

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You hit the nail right on the head Rollin! CA got F'd up by east coast carpetbaggers and their liberal B.S.

People that say vote them out don't have a clue about how hard that is! Even if Reagan was still the Gov, it wouldn't matter! He wasn't exactly gun friendly and made his feelings known.

Republicans are just as bad as Dems, can't stand either side and we're always stuck with the lesser of the two evils!

Hopefully Benitez will get something done and there might be some light at the end of the barrel.

Anyway, who wants to go shooting in the desert next spring?
Very well put and the point deserves repeating. REPUBLICANS at the Federal level have done more to hurt firearms owners than democrats. Banning Machine Guns (1986 - Reagan) Banning importation of Foreign assault weapons (Bush executive order)
 

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Bob, your hatred of Californians is misplaced. We are seeing anti-gun measures in record numbers in a great many states other than CA. We have seen a mag ban in CO, AW bans pushed in FL, VA, WI, OR and others. Taking Gun Control to the People After Parkland
It is NOT a particular state's people you have to rail against, but rather PEOPLE in general. POPULATION is the enemy, not people from a particular state. Look all across the country, we are seeing increases in population that lead to gun bans. Take the most "red" small town or city you want. If we doubled or tripled the population (with people from anywhere) don't you think we will see a rise in urban crime? And thus a rise in the resentment towards guns? And with 3x the people, you will have 3x the urban sprawl. Just where are you going to SHOOT those rifles we all treasure so much. For example, from downtown LA, you'd have to drive a solid hour or more in any direction to find a place to legally shoot a rifle outdoors. And that would be all of THREE ranges (one of which is private with a 2 year waiting list). For a city of over 10 MILLION, you have a whole 3 ranges within a hour's drive. A bit like owning a sailboat in the desert. Look at anti-gun laws. Yes, CA is the most populace state by a LONG shot and... it has the most gun laws. Up next - NY also next on the population chart. It pretty much follows gun laws and anti-gun sentiment goes up with the population. And it doesn't matter where the people come from. Hell most people in NY city have never lived in CA, but they managed to find a hatred of guns all by themselves.
I don’t hate them, I have contempt for most of them. And I’m one of them. I’ve lived in Northern California off and on since 1966. I used to travel in the Bay Area on business weekly, and now spend a lot of time flying back and forth from Sacramento and LA. The people who live here now are nowhere near the independent free thinkers I grew up around. The majority of people here sheep. It’s a failed socialist state, it just hasn’t run out of money. Yet. We have a large population of ignorant people who essentially vote the demo ticket based on promises...free medical care, free college, free money, free food, legal weed, and goverment sanctioned social deviants. My father was veteran of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. He was a life-long Democratic, and at one time the head of the demo party for the county we lived in. There is no doubt in my mind that if he were still alive, he would puke at what the party has become. It’s a mind set that the goverment knows more about what’s better for you than you do, so you just need to go with their agenda and be rewarded (programs, free stuff, legal dope). Or you can fight it and get steam-rolled. And it creeps in. Anti-discrimination laws become teaching gay history to elementary school kids. Women’s right laws become laws that let your teenage daughter get an abortion without parental permission or even parental knowledge. It creeps in when people become sheep and are willing to trade off rights and responsibilities to the government in return for happiness and security. And of course everyone wants more of those, but they have to give up more. And the lie is, the goverment can’t provide it. I’m sure given a choice both Cali. and NY will gladly take a population of ignorant sheep who can’t think for themselves, let alone think critically, over a population of indepedent critical thinkers who do have the common sense to know the difference between chicken salad and chicken ****. The gun stuff has gone too far. When do we get freedom of speech, but only at certain times and places? How much longer before you have to have a government permit to express an opinion? How much longer before there is freedom of the press, but you have to permit to buy ink, or register your printer with the state? The second amendment is the most attacked, most eaten away amendment of all of them, and it is the one the protects all the freedoms granted by all the other amendments. Finally, it is the one amendment that empowers every citizen to gather collectively, and tell the government “we’ve had enough of you crap.” I have been told I have maybe 10 years to live because of an immune system issue they can’t diagnose, let alone treat, and there are days when I watch the news, read a newspaper, or attend a state hearing when those 10 years can’t come fast enough. Cali has become a state of sheep ruled by wolves.
 

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I don’t hate them, I have contempt for most of them. And I’m one of them. I’ve lived in Northern California off and on since 1966. I used to travel in the Bay Area on business weekly, and now spend a lot of time flying back and forth from Sacramento and LA. The people who live here now are nowhere near the independent free thinkers I grew up around. The majority of people here sheep. It’s a failed socialist state, it just hasn’t run out of money. Yet. We have a large population of ignorant people who essentially vote the demo ticket based on promises...free medical care, free college, free money, free food, legal weed, and goverment sanctioned social deviants. My father was veteran of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. He was a life-long Democratic, and at one time the head of the demo party for the county we lived in. There is no doubt in my mind that if he were still alive, he would puke at what the party has become. It’s a mind set that the goverment knows more about what’s better for you than you do, so you just need to go with their agenda and be rewarded (programs, free stuff, legal dope). Or you can fight it and get steam-rolled. And it creeps in. Anti-discrimination laws become teaching gay history to elementary school kids. Women’s right laws become laws that let your teenage daughter get an abortion without parental permission or even parental knowledge. It creeps in when people become sheep and are willing to trade off rights and responsibilities to the government in return for happiness and security. And of course everyone wants more of those, but they have to give up more. And the lie is, the goverment can’t provide it. I’m sure given a choice both Cali. and NY will gladly take a population of ignorant sheep who can’t think for themselves, let alone think critically, over a population of indepedent critical thinkers who do have the common sense to know the difference between chicken salad and chicken ****. The gun stuff has gone too far. When do we get freedom of speech, but only at certain times and places? How much longer before you have to have a government permit to express an opinion? How much longer before there is freedom of the press, but you have to permit to buy ink, or register your printer with the state? The second amendment is the most attacked, most eaten away amendment of all of them, and it is the one the protects all the freedoms granted by all the other amendments. Finally, it is the one amendment that empowers every citizen to gather collectively, and tell the government “we’ve had enough of you crap.” I have been told I have maybe 10 years to live because of an immune system issue they can’t diagnose, let alone treat, and there are days when I watch the news, read a newspaper, or attend a state hearing when those 10 years can’t come fast enough. Cali has become a state of sheep ruled by wolves.
Well then, I stand corrected?
 

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Partly. I don't hate a lot. As the saying goes, "hate corrodes the vessel it is carried in." It's a wasted emotion. But I do have contempt for what this state has become. And like i said, if you want to see what's headed your way, watch California. Enough political crap; I don't want this thread getting hijacked by it; it's too important, especially to anyone in Cali.
 

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My local FFL told me that they recently sold a 1919 and that it was deemed a "Fixed magazine". If you look at the California definition of a fixed magazine it's any magazine (a belt fits the classification of a magazine) that cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action. The M2 belt removal requires lifting the top plate interrupting the action. I'm inclined to agree with their assessment. This is, however, still a problem if you use a belt with more than 10 rounds.
 

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I think your FFL must be smokin that funny stuff, opening a feed cover is not the same as disassembling a firearm by any stretch of the imagination even in California. Just my humbled opinion......
 

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Disassembly of the firearm is not required. Only disabling of the action. This is why "maglocked" ar15s are legal that only crack the action open to enable the magazine to drop. The weapon can still fire, but it can't feed. To me, this concept is no different on an M2.
 

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I have to agree with the post above absolutely no way that removing the top cover and removing the belt is the functional equivalent of disassembly of the action of the weapon. Do not rely on FFL for legal advice
Disassembly of the firearm is not required. Only disabling of the action. This is why "maglocked" ar15s are legal that only crack the action open to enable the magazine to drop. The weapon can still fire, but it can't feed. To me, this concept is no different on an M2.
It's not "disabling" the action either. The law requires "disassembly of the action"

PC 30515: For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action. A 1919 belt is not "permanently attached" and opening the top cover is not "disassembly of the action". And, of course, you DO NOT need to open the top cover to insert a new belt or even remove an existing belt. SO.... again, don't play games with CA firearms laws. You will receive NO quarter.
 

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On the M2 It's not possible to remove the belt without lifting the top cover. My FFL told me that "their rep" said that the 1919 could be transferred as a fixed magazine. Did they mean their CADOJ representative assigned to their store? I can ask them to clarify.
 

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You seem to ignore the advice of people on this board who own belt fed weapons in CA and are trying to educate you in a friendly manner. I would say that you should call a few other FFL's around town and see what response you get or call the CA DOJ yourself so you don't get yourself in trouble.
 

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I appreciate the advice anyone has to offer. Most FFLs wont deal with an M2 of any sort (I have tried). I bought my M2HB from a shop in the bay area before the new "other" classification. I'm just saying what I have been told was approved by the CADOJ. I also realize that a DROS approval does not implicitly mean that the transaction was legal. It's entirely possible that the 1919 or M2 now has to be transferred out of state.
 

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I do not claim to even understand what the rules are for transferring belt fed weapons in CA are today. For me personally the belt fed guns that I am going to sell will most likely have to be sold out of state.

What we were saying was that opening a top cover on an M2 or M1919a4 does not constitute disassembly of the firearm action by any stretch of the imagination, that's all. It is not the same as the fixed magazines in the AR series of weapons that require you to also unlock and pivot the upper receiver open to load the magazine.
 

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I appreciate the advice anyone has to offer. Most FFLs wont deal with an M2 of any sort (I have tried). I bought my M2HB from a shop in the bay area before the new "other" classification. I'm just saying what I have been told was approved by the CADOJ. I also realize that a DROS approval does not implicitly mean that the transaction was legal. It's entirely possible that the 1919 or M2 now has to be transferred out of state.
The M2 (or 1919) will just have to be registered as an assault weapon, that's all. We're not saying it's illegal or that you can't keep it. Just be aware of the law change and that when the law goes into effect in 2022 it will have to be registered. Welcome to CA.
 

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Future,,,,,,, In Kalifornia, firearms & individual rounds of ammunition, will need to be registered.
Future,,,,,, In Kalifornia, Some judge will allow a media FOIA request, to get names and addresses of registered owners.
Future,,,,,,, After FOIA release, in big newsprint, or "Breaking News" TV alert, it will say an assault weapon owner, j-walked today.
That is the future, in Kalifornia, with today's voters, voting party candidates and blindly voting laws by believing the media spin.
But you can change the future, by not voting for anti-gunners, (check to see who is a anti-gunner) and anti-gun laws, no matter what party they are. Currently Democrats are 85 to 90 percent anti-gunners.
 

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Well, I have a problem with all this. You see, I was cursed with the Optimist gene. I keep thinking that Judge Benitez ruling on the LCM case, the ammunition background check case, and the "assault weapon" case now pending before him will overturn all this nonsense. Not only in CA, but at the SCOTUS level and, thus, nationwide. Call me crazy, but I can't help myself. It's in my genes!
 
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Discussion Starter #78
I'm with you Rollin and I hope Benitez and SCOTUS will help to overturn this BS!

I just don't trust what the lying media, politicians and others will do to keep us from our freedoms!

At this point, I'm thinking that the country might need another civil war to correct itself. This time around though, there will have to be changes that will never be questioned again!

Personally I would be happy to get rid of all politicians and have the minimal amount of government as possible!
 

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I don't know if we get all the way to civil war, Shawn, in the full context most people define it. But we have already seen massive violence from revolutionaries in cities like Portland. These are mobs of anarchists, communists etc who are committed to forcing their brutality on the rest of us, and they have to be dealt with permanently. As you suggest, so there is no questioning after of what this country's principals and values are. That means, long term, taking the education system back so the next generation appreciates what was created here between 1775 and 1789, and how we need to return to those ideals and goals.
 
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Well, I have a problem with all this. You see, I was cursed with the Optimist gene. I keep thinking that Judge Benitez ruling on the LCM case, the ammunition background check case, and the "assault weapon" case now pending before him will overturn all this nonsense. Not only in CA, but at the SCOTUS level and, thus, nationwide. Call me crazy, but I can't help myself. It's in my genes!
Rolling, God bless you. While I try to be optimistic, I find myself often defaulting to “expect the worst and you won’t be do disappointed” mode. As happy as I was with the 9th upholding the Benitez ruling, I was thoroughly dismayed with them staying their own ruling so our AG could appeal it to the SCOTUS. I never understood why the 9th would uphold the ruling, agree that it is unconstitutional, agree that it is a violation of constitutional rights, and say we will suspend those rights pending your appeal —- which I believe he has two years to make it. Now Biden gets elected, he packs SCOTUS, and we get shafted.
 
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