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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend came into this item. It's a cloth bandolier with dummy 20mm rounds. They are not the "modern" 20mm rounds, as used in today's M61 gatling gun.

You can see in the photo, there is a modern 20mm round beside the setup, for reference.

If you have any idea what this is for, country of origin, value, anything, we would appreciate your help.

My friend has this at his place about 80 miles from me. So, I can't take any measurements.

Thank you!

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...m127..

Believe they are the M127 20MM rds. The Navy used 'em more that anyone else. I had 4-M127 20MM bbls,4-40MM Bofers bbls and a 14.7 Russian bbl. from an estate. Traded 'em to Kent Lomont in 2006 for some M2Hb and Lahti stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Believe they are the M127 20MM rds. The Navy used 'em more that anyone else. I had 4-M127 20MM bbls,4-40MM Bofers bbls and a 14.7 Russian bbl. from an estate. Traded 'em to Kent Lomont in 2006 for some M2Hb and Lahti stuff.
Thanks. We're just as curious about the "bandolier" as we are the dummy ammo. So, if anyone has info on this, it is appreciated!
 

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I believe the 20 mm things you have are used to test the feeding cycle of the gun.
I have a bunch of them but they are normally linked with metal links . never seen a cloth belt for them.
 

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The black thread running through it is to mark which side the cartridges are loaded in from , so I think it is indeed a cloth feed belt . For what gun , however , I have no idea.
Chris
 

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Historically webbing has ticking to identify strength or type or even to show where to sew at assembly and or fold lines. J
 

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I found this post interesting so I dug out my June 1944 manual TM 9-1901 Artillery Ammunition. Under 20mm it only mentions link belts "the ammunition is fed into the guns by means of link belts,...or a 60 round drum type magazine " . it goes on to list the link types as "M7, M3, M4 and M5". "they are issued when the M1, M1A1 and T15 feed mechanisms are required except the M7 link which is issued for the M2 feed mechanism", The cloth belt may've been used earlier or may have been of foreign origin.
 

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>The black thread running through it is to mark which side the cartridges are loaded in from , so I think it is indeed a cloth feed belt . For what gun , however , I have no idea.
Chris<

Sorry, nothing adds up in that set up for it to be a "belt" for a large caliber automatic weapon, in my experience.Here's my view.
The fabric appears to be synthetic, and if so, it is relatively modern, and the dummy rounds appear to me to be fake "20mm" made up for display. The looped holder appears to me to be for shotgun shells or something else, as noted above. There is nothing apparent in the construction of the loops to suggest that they are any shape but a cylinder into which anything can be inserted from either side. The broad flat belt backing of the loops is completely inappropriate in width for feed, and the loops not being connected to each other at the axis midpoint of each cartridge is wrong. The belt is not push through, but each round must be extracted from the belt and then moved into position for chambering, a design going back to the 1880s and long obsolete. And there are other anomalies that refute the notion that it is a belt.
The design and configuration of this "belt" makes absolutely no sense at all even with a cursory trip through the development of belt feed types for automatic weapons of small and large caliber starting from Maxim, Browning, and many, many other designers and manufacturers of MGs and cannon just before and after 1900. Maxim's 37mm Pom-Pom gun used fabric belts, the only available material pre-WWI for automatic weapons of any size. Magazines and steel links for use to feed large caliber automatic weapons occurred in the middle 1930s. Continuous steel and link belts took over from fabric for use in MGs in large part for use in MGs in the middle to late 1930s and by the end of WWII fabric was obsolete as a belt material.
Anyway, whatever it is and whereve it came from, nothing about it says "belt" to me.........FWIW
 

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12 round Feed strip? Possibly?

http://www.bevfitchett.us/heavy-machine-guns/automatic-cannon-the-mm-guns.html

The long Solothurn cartridge saw use in a variety of other weapons including two Italian AA guns: the Breda Model 35 and the Scotti. The gas-operated Breda was more common, but had a modest performance with a 200-220 rpm rate of fire, made worse by the feed method which involved a twelve-round strip. The Scotti used a gas-unlocked blowback system similar to the Hispano, but could still achieve only 250 rpm. It was, however, somewhat lighter than the Breda at 227kg in action (including mounting) instead of 307kg, and was available with a twelve-round strip feed, a sixty-round drum magazine or belt feed.
My google-fu is failing after this much.

NS
 

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Nope,

I'm in the Navy, and the dummy rounds we use on the CIWS (20mm Phalanx based around the M61 Gatling) do not look like the OP's.

NS
 

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Here is a photo of the live rds for the 20mm Oerlikon.
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As Bob noted, the "bandoleer" looks like a belt slid on unit for something like shot shells, and does not resemble any feed device I have seen for the Oerlikon. Everything else aside, the cloth unit does not provide for alignment of the rds entering the gun and would result in jams, which according to my Dad are a ***** to clear particularly when someone is shooting at you. Most Military applications used a 60 rd drum to feed the single gun. My Dad was a gunner on the 20mm in the Pacific and as a result I got interested in them. While the box magazine pictured above was used in some foreign apps, the US used the Drum. the dummy rds are probably marked, and were used to test function on the gun. the cloth holder is not a feed device. It may turn out to be a carrying device for the dummies, but None of the other dummy rounds used in testing other weapons systems have that kind of a carrier.
 

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just a thought guy,s but could this be a piece of belt used for the double sized 1919 trainer

i got dummy,s here for such a trainer and these fit perfect in steel 20mm links
so...iff any 20mm fit in a belt, then it might be that it belonged to a beltfed trainer
i have been told they only came with a small piece of cloth belt..
 
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