[jeepj1020]

I know it's christmas and probably not alot of people on the board today, but on one of my local classifieds sites a guy has a Chauchat Machine Rifle for sale, says it was his grandpas and is all greased up, the barrel is plugged to not allow operation. Serious inquiries only. What's the value of this thing, legality also. His price is good I think, but I don't know alot about this
thanks

 

[scotty1418]

i would bet his rifle is actually a mg. More than likely. You need the paperwork, otherwise, dont even think about it.

Definitely check up on it and take pics though!

merry christmas!

 

[blackrifles]

Check your PMs, hope you're having a Merry Christmas.

 

[jeepj1020]

Check your PMs, hope you're having a Merry Christmas.

Same to you blackrifles pm sent also

 

[Lone Ranger]

Sounds like a DEWAT which is a MG and should be registered. To put it mildly, the DEWAT process was a bit chaotic - firearm, not a firearm, firearm. Ask owner if registered - if you get a response, he can call the NFA Branch w/serial number to check. Also go through every last paper grandpa had... could be something in there showing he had lawful possession. Not sure on DEWATS, but have seen operational guns advertised for 6-8k - whether they actually sell for that is anybody's guess. They have reputation of being a POS, and only a small % of those manufactured are still in one piece but I think they would be neato for the history if nothing else.

 

[tribrothers]

I own one. I still need to get the barrel rechambered before I can start messing around with all the rest to get her shooting.

If it is a papered Dewat(Deactivated War Trophy) the value is between $3500 to $5500. At $3500 they sell within 24 hours.

If it is not papered, and I am not sure on the process with the NFA Branch of the ATF to verify one way or the other, then there is still value in the parts kit. I offered one guy $800 for a parts kit with the barrel chamber welded and the bolt face also welded, and he would not take it. He thought it was worth $2000.

I hope this helps, and regardless of mass opinion, these are a historical and interesting weapon that served many machine gun teams well. If you get it, there is a book on it that you can find by googling Chauchat. The different manuals out there are interesting also.

Tribrothers

 

[Armorer]

If it belonged to a relative who brought it back from WWI chances are it is not registered. Machine guns were not controlled by federal law until 1934 and there was no registration in the WW1 era. During WWII the ATF allowed captured automaic weapons to be brought back as war trophies if they were welded in the chamber and registered. Many were welded but not papered. Some were papered but not welded or improperly welded. During the 1950/60's many gun companies imported machine guns and had them welded and papered (registered) and sold them to collectors. Then in about 1955/56 (I could look up the exact dates) the ATF decided that the process of supervising the dewating of thes guns was taking too much of their time. The decided to take a calculated risk and allow them to be sold witout registration and papers. That program was known as the DEWAT program and lasted only a few years as I recall. They then went back to the registration program and deactivated guns after that were classified as "unserviceable" rather than DEWAT. For many years unregistered deactivated machine guns existed legally along side registered ones. In 1968 the new National Firearms act amendment required all machine guns to be registered tho include all the previously unregistered DEWATs. An amnesty period of only about one month was instituted for this to take place. Many unregistered DEWATS were never registered and their current owners have no idea they were supposed to be. From everything I have heard the BATF has never allowed an unregistered gun to be registered after the amnesty period but I could be wrong.

 

[blackrifles]

Armorer,

IIRC, there were some added to the registry after 1968, citizens with DOD papers and something about FBI agents and Thompsons, perhaps LR has read this interesting news as well.

LR and I both agree ALL war trophy MGs/DEWATs should be allowed amnesty, damn the ONE month ' 68 BS, be it registered by veterans or veteran's relatives. To be FORCED (by govt) to surrender/destroy a piece of military history is not logical, a disgrace to those that have served.

 

[Armorer]

That 1968 law is a good example of how a person can go to bed one day a law abiding citizen and wake up the next day a criminal subject to 10 years in jail. Unfortunately it can happen again and be even worse next time.

By the way I had a DEWAT Chauchat back in 1968 and it was not registered. I did get it registeed under the amnesty and sold it a several years ago for a couple hundred bucks. I never thought that particular gun would be worth much more in a few years.

 

[mspurg]

Several bills have been written, presented, but never got any where because of the retards like Kennedy, Schumer, Clinton, Feinstein, and other Police State lovers!!! The Demtards are hellbent to turn this country into a Police State any way they can, and this is just one retarded example. I may have access to a WW I firearm from a deceased relative, and it will be a cold day in Hell before I would ever turn it in!!!!!

Armorer,

IIRC, there were some added to the registry after 1968, citizens with DOD papers and something about FBI agents and Thompsons, perhaps LR has read this interesting news as well.

LR and I both agree ALL war trophy MGs/DEWATs should be allowed amnesty, damn the ONE month ' 68 BS, be it registered by veterans or veteran's relatives. To be FORCED (by govt) to surrender/destroy a piece of military history is not logical, a disgrace to those that have served.

 

[blackrifles]

Mspurg,

The same people wanted to ban ALL former US Govt-current "military-type" firearms and require them turned in, including military vehicles and equipment, even had legislation written up for it, thank GOD that legislation died. There's no way I'd turn in all the W-II era semi-autos my grandfather willed to me, if the govt had a problem with them being sold on the commercial market, they should've made up their minds many decades ago, far too late now.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Several bills have been written, presented, but never got any where because of the retards like Kennedy, Schumer, Clinton, Feinstein, and other Police State lovers!!! The Demtards are hellbent to turn this country into a Police State any way they can, and this is just one retarded example. I may have access to a WW I firearm from a deceased relative, and it will be a cold day in Hell before I would ever turn it in!!!!!

The current version of the bill is HR 1141. Not trying to raise your blood pressure mspurg, but last congress when the Republicans were at the helm it had numerous co-sponsors and stood a real chance to pass the house IF it was allowed on the floor for a vote, but the Replublican leadership (Sensenbrenner?) held it in comittee (HR 2088). Loads of misinformation was spread about it on the net. Nothing new there, getting gun owners to read a bill before commenting is like pulling teeth. Now the chairs of the committees it is assigned to are Conyers and Wrangel - good luck.

As for unregistered firearms being allowed into the NFRTR, I believe such a thing has happened, but cannot cite specific incidents. An interesting tidbit is that 922(o) specifies firearms "lawfully possessed" on the effective date are OK - nothing about being in the NFRTR. Eric Larson wrote an article for SGN a couple of years back about the Ken Crane case which involved a lawfully possessed Thompson in possession of a widow when no record was found in the NFRTR. ATF eventually relented and allowed the gun to be transferred. At least thats my recollection, might be senile.

 

[blackrifles]

LR,

You're not senile, but you did forget to forward your current address, one present is going to be late. Oh well, something to enlighten you in the New Year.

Appears we've poured over the same NFA articles at one time.

So "technically" DOD papers are legal per 922(o), without being listed in NFRTR, only past experience tells us some overzealous Feds want the MG surrendered for destruction, and will threaten bad things if you don't, you still have to get legal assistance battling the machine. We still have a serious issue, I can see most folks might hire a lawyer and wringing some Fed necks over a $20,000+ MG, but most people will not for a non-NFA registered MG/DEWAT worth 1/4 that, and I bet some desk jockeys are banking on that fact.

 

[mspurg]

The reason that most pro-gun bills did not make out of committee was because the Demtards would have “shelved” it. This happened to a pro-gun bill that passed the House just before elections, where retard Feinstein had it yanked for some dumtard reason. I cannot remember what that bill was, but, as usual, the misinformation from the left loonies, along with the Demtards, it is surprising that we can even own any firearms any more!!!

The current version of the bill is HR 1141. Not trying to raise your blood pressure mspurg, but last congress when the Republicans were at the helm it had numerous co-sponsors and stood a real chance to pass the house IF it was allowed on the floor for a vote, but the Replublican leadership (Sensenbrenner?) held it in comittee (HR 2088). Loads of misinformation was spread about it on the net. Nothing new there, getting gun owners to read a bill before commenting is like pulling teeth. Now the chairs of the committees it is assigned to are Conyers and Wrangel - good luck.
QUOTE]

 

[Lone Ranger]

LR,

You're not senile, but you did forget to forward your current address, one present is going to be late. Oh well, something to enlighten you in the New Year.

So "technically" DOD papers are legal per 922(o), without being listed in NFRTR

I don't have the knowledge to make any blanket statements. I would be comfortable telling you it would likely be a case-by-case basis with specific info in each scenario evaluated as they arise. There is a letter dated 2004 on the NFAOA website to Larson concerning other docs that could be used to prove lawful possession and it is not specific or all-encompassing. I think in the Crane case it was a letter from the agency acknowledging the gun was "registered as a dewat" back in the 50s.

re: addy, I'll drop you a line in approx 2 weeks - had to delay closing on this shack while the sale paperwork gets done for MS. The new place has no mail box yet.

 

[Lone Ranger]

The reason that most pro-gun bills did not make out of committee was because the Demtards would have “shelved” it. This happened to a pro-gun bill that passed the House just before elections, where retard Feinstein had it yanked for some dumtard reason. I cannot remember what that bill was, but, as usual, the misinformation from the left loonies, along with the Demtards, it is surprising that we can even own any firearms any more!!!


Maybe you are thinking of HR 5092... ATF reform? It was good stuff and passed the house with room to spare. Held in the senate by Feinstein. As I understand it, the senate has gotten as lazy as the rest of society - no more need to fillibuster, just "hold" a bill. I think they should have to really work for it by jawjacking endlessly like in the old days which would keep one idiot from stopping the other 99 idiots from moving on something. Of course that could bite us in the backside as well. It has been resurrected as HR 4900, but text is not on the GPO site yet.

 

[jeepj1020]

you guys are just one big brain of info. I appreciate all the helpful knowledge.
thanks
mike

 

[Lone Ranger]

It's a sick hobby, but addictive.

 

[blackrifles]

Pale Face speak the truth.


Mike, no problem, anytime.