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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a 1919A4 parts kit that I thought was an izzy 7.62. So, I bought a NOS 7.62 barrel for it. A New right side plate and semi parts for it from Ohio Ordnance.A guy who was going to build my parts kit into a semi auto tells me my kit was a .30-06 and he wouldn't build it as a 7.62 because it needed machining and parts that his price didn't include. So, he riveted it together, parkerized it and send it back to me as a .30-06 with my 7.62 barrel installed and told me to buy a .30-06 barrel. I'd still like it as a 7.62 because the ammo is less expensive. I guess I can get an excellant to NOS .30-06 barrel for $150.00 to $200.00. I'm no expert by any measure...so, Somebody tell me what I need
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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You should be able to run 7.62 with a couple of minor, and not too expensive changes. First, the 7.62 kits are modified from the original -06 by the Israelis. But most of the parts they made for that conversion can be left out and the standard parts used. There are just a few things you need. Seems you have a barrel already. Now look at your booster orifice on the end of the barrel jacket assembly. If you have a 30-06 booster, it should have a hole diameter of .718, and this is marked on the original part. If you have Israeli markings or, more importantly, a hole size of about .531, then you have a 7.62 booster. You will probably want that, and it is a common item if you need to obtain one. That smaller orifice gives more back pressure to cycle the 7.62 round reliably. Next, you will need the two feedway spacers for 7.62, which are drop-in parts that are pinned into the left side belt holding pawl bracket by the same pin that retains the pawl. They fit in the two bracket notches forward and aft of that belt holding pawl. Also, you may need to obtain a bolt that is modified for 7.62, and if your existing one does not say "7.62" in large format right on the top, then you have an unmodified bolt. But check to see if a 7.62 round will slide freely through the T-slot in the front of the bolt. If so, try as is. If not, the Israeli modified bolts are common and not too expensive.

The other thing you need to be aware of is if the right side rear cartridge stop- which is riveted to the right side plate at the back of the feedway, is USGI or Israeli spec. If you have the USGI part, then you will have to be mindful of how deep you insert the ammo in the links. It's a bit tricky, but it will work. This is a start. Take a look at these things and get back to us.
 

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Since you have an OOW sideplate, you should check with them to see if they have semi auto .308 bolts available. They should also have the left side cartridge stops you need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I checked with OOW and they said they did not have the left side cartridge guides/stops. I got my right side plate, bolt (7.62), barrel extension and lock plate from them, Great people to deal with.

Since you have an OOW sideplate, you should check with them to see if they have semi auto .308 bolts available. They should also have the left side cartridge stops you need.
 

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Just something to think about. If your kit is a totally un Israeli modified 1919a4 they usually command a premium price to the 7.62X51 Israeli guns. All you would have to do is put on a 30-06 barrel and sell it as an original GI 1919a4. Do some research(I would bet this sight has all the info you would need) and compare your gun to an unmodified gun. You could then buy an Israeli gun ready to go and have some extra cash. Someone here might even trade you plus some extra cash for it. All this depends on it being unmodified. Either modified or not all these guns work well just to some collectors they want a GI gun. On my semi it is stamped on the inside of the plate but the outside of the semi plate has the original type markings
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Lucky#13. I did some research on my own and found pretty much what you told me. I was just looking for confirmation. My booster is for the .30-06 so I will get one for a 7.62. The guy who did my build told me that it would need machining and expensive parts to convert my .30-06 to 7.62. I found that the 7.62 feedway/guides were basically drop-in, held in place by the belt feed pawl pin. Think I was also told that it needed to change the top plate??? I'm searching for the 7.62 parts now.
I already have a 1919A4 in 7.62 and wanted this one in the same caliber and was going to finish it as an A6 with some NOS parts I already have. I'll have to check and see if the barrel bearing for the bipod is for a .30-06 or 7.62. One listing said they were the same for either caliber. My advice to anyone who is going to have someone build their parts kit for them, buyer beware.

You should be able to run 7.62 with a couple of minor, and not too expensive changes. First, the 7.62 kits are modified from the original -06 by the Israelis. But most of the parts they made for that conversion can be left out and the standard parts used. There are just a few things you need. Seems you have a barrel already. Now look at your booster orifice on the end of the barrel jacket assembly. If you have a 30-06 booster, it should have a hole diameter of .718, and this is marked on the original part. If you have Israeli markings or, more importantly, a hole size of about .531, then you have a 7.62 booster. You will probably want that, and it is a common item if you need to obtain one. That smaller orifice gives more back pressure to cycle the 7.62 round reliably. Next, you will need the two feedway spacers for 7.62, which are drop-in parts that are pinned into the left side belt holding pawl bracket by the same pin that retains the pawl. They fit in the two bracket notches forward and aft of that belt holding pawl. Also, you may need to obtain a bolt that is modified for 7.62, and if your existing one does not say "7.62" in large format right on the top, then you have an unmodified bolt. But check to see if a 7.62 round will slide freely through the T-slot in the front of the bolt. If so, try as is. If not, the Israeli modified bolts are common and not too expensive.

The other thing you need to be aware of is if the right side rear cartridge stop- which is riveted to the right side plate at the back of the feedway, is USGI or Israeli spec. If you have the USGI part, then you will have to be mindful of how deep you insert the ammo in the links. It's a bit tricky, but it will work. This is a start. Take a look at these things and get back to us.
 

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Well , don't be so hard on him .
All guns are individuals . While Lucky is right on , you do run across a few that NEED the extra mods to work 100% . They did not do all that extra maching for nothing , lives were at risk if they did not work . You prob'ly never be in an armed fight with the 1919 , so you don't have to demand 100% from it . The builder prob'ly knew that if he built it with minimum conversion parts and not whole hog , it prob'ly would not work 100% and you'd blame him , and he did not want to deal with that hassle and $$$$ to fix something that would not be his fault.
Chris
 

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PhD in Over-Engineering
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Thanks Lucky#13. I did some research on my own and found pretty much what you told me. I was just looking for confirmation. My booster is for the .30-06 so I will get one for a 7.62. The guy who did my build told me that it would need machining and expensive parts to convert my .30-06 to 7.62. I found that the 7.62 feedway/guides were basically drop-in, held in place by the belt feed pawl pin. Think I was also told that it needed to change the top plate??? I'm searching for the 7.62 parts now.
I already have a 1919A4 in 7.62 and wanted this one in the same caliber and was going to finish it as an A6 with some NOS parts I already have. I'll have to check and see if the barrel bearing for the bipod is for a .30-06 or 7.62. One listing said they were the same for either caliber. My advice to anyone who is going to have someone build their parts kit for them, buyer beware.
Chris is right, each gun is an individual. I've made a similar case. While my testing could lead me to a conclusion that the Israeli mods were overkill, I understand that I don't have a bunch of crazy fanatics shooting back at me. The crux of what they did was to move the working areas of the feed parts to the rear by about 3/16 of an inch, to accommodate the shorter cartridge.

Just fyi, the permanent mods that the Israelis made are not involving the "top plate" (riveted receiver component) but rather to the top COVER feed parts, and the belt holding pawl area. You could easily and cheaply swap in an Israeli 7.62 top cover assembly, with no changes to the gun itself. That leaves you only with the belt holding pawl question. My bet is that you will have no issues with the 30-06 holding pawl, but the only way to be certain is when you take it to the range. I've run two different guns in 7.62 with the 30-06 pawls, no problem. I know others who have done the same.

Well, there is the right side cartridge stop issue. I think I need to take some pics of a gun assembled with each style of stop and show how this impacts the 7.62 link ejection issue. Either stop can work, but no question the Izzy part is preferred. The difference is all in how deep you seat ammo in links or belts, because the position of the links for ejection is critical.
 

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Well, there is the right side cartridge stop issue. I think I need to take some pics of a gun assembled with each style of stop and show how this impacts the 7.62 link ejection issue. Either stop can work, but no question the Izzy part is preferred. The difference is all in how deep you seat ammo in links or belts, because the position of the links for ejection is critical.
You can clearly see the USGI 30.06 right rear cartridge stop. Now notice the link position in the belt of .308 ammo.



A couple more views of the link position. The second picture also clearly shows the Izzie .308 front cartridge spacer.



 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This guy told me that he would do my build it two days. Per his emails, he didn't open the package for a week. Then for 2 weeks he said it was done but he couldn't get to FedEx to ship it. Then after saying that even though my kit was a .30-06 there would be no problem building it as the 7.62 that I wanted because it would need expensive parts and machining.. I finally got it back as a .30-06 after a month of excuses and without my flash hider. Now, two weeks later I still haven't gotten it.

Well , don't be so hard on him .
All guns are individuals . While Lucky is right on , you do run across a few that NEED the extra mods to work 100% . They did not do all that extra maching for nothing , lives were at risk if they did not work . You prob'ly never be in an armed fight with the 1919 , so you don't have to demand 100% from it . The builder prob'ly knew that if he built it with minimum conversion parts and not whole hog , it prob'ly would not work 100% and you'd blame him , and he did not want to deal with that hassle and $$$$ to fix something that would not be his fault.
Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks to all for your replies and suggestions. After considering my options I'm going to leave it as a .30-06 and try and find a good barrel for it. My .30-06 barrel is in fair to good condition. The .30-06 barrels are getting harder to find. Side by side comparing my 7.62 to the .30-06 clearly shows the differences.

Now, I'm going to start saving my money for a 1917A1 parts kit. Need to have one like Lucky#13's photos.

And, anyone know where I can get a dummy right side plate for a M2HB for a display gun that I'm trying to build from assorted parts?

You can clearly see the USGI 30.06 right rear cartridge stop. Now notice the link position in the belt of .308 ammo.



A couple more views of the link position. The second picture also clearly shows the Izzie .308 front cartridge spacer.



 
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