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Discussion Starter #1
I live in California, and California and Minnesota are the only two states that have laws against ?trigger devices?. I have an Ohio ?rapid-fire? on the way and plan to get a set of the spade grips in lieu of the CrankFire. However, I would like to purchase a CrankFire unit and leave it in my storage with my FN FAL and other non-CA-legal ?assault? rifles.

I?m ordering an ?A6? kit that includes a flash suppressor (even though I cannot mount it in CA) and plan to drop that extra piece in my Reno storage as well. Possession of a flash-hider is OK as long as it?s NOT attached to the gun?

My question is whether (or not) anyone knows if I can do the same with the CrankFire device? I?d like to buy one and have it shipped to me in California but don?t want to chance breaking any laws ? because my freedom and good name, and job are not worth any such risk.

So does anyone know if I can be in LEGAL possession of this device?

Otherwise I?m going to have to make arrangements to ship it to folks in Nevada ? which will necessitate a 2-hour drive to put a chunk of metal into storage. Obviously, I?d much rather buy one and have it shipped to me and take it up to Reno for my next trip up there.

I have some blown-out discs in my lower back ? so trips to Reno are much more difficult and far less frequent than they used to be for me (not to mention gas costs these days). It?s gotten SO BAD that I had to have a friend use an ?industrial? seal-a-meal to package my mags because the summer heat melts off any and all lubricant and I?m forced to make a trip (whether or not I?m up to it) just to re-grease the guns I keep in storage so they don?t turn to rust during the winter months from lack of protective lubricant because of condensation.

I know (strongly suspect) the retailers won?t sell me a CrankFire to an address in California, but I?ve considered buying one second hand and want to be absolutely certain that I?m NOT going to be in violation of any law if I do so. The device will NEVER be attached to my gun until I take it to Nevada for my now twice-yearly shoots.

Thanks for anything you can advise me on!!!

If I'm "good to go" at least I can shop around for second-hand CrankFire units. :)
 

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No Cranks to Kal!

. :mad:
 

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I guess it doesn't matter if you can do it or not, you may be setting someone else up for a fall, or all of us. Please don't ask that type of question..Trying to get around the law should not be what we're about.....Lou
 

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no matter how you slice it slick, it's still going to be a problem sending a crank fire device to a calif address, regardless what your intentions are........

according to your state law.......the meer possesion of the device, can land you in the slammer......



12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

yadda, yadda, yadda

(23) As used in this section, a "multiburst trigger activator" means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.



I'm sure there are some folks out there that have no qualms about sending stuff that is against calif state law to calif address, but that is their call. personally, I wouldn't even attempt to buy one if I lived in that state......1 year in the county jail, or a state prison taking long hot showers with bubba, just doesn't appeal to me......


I got this off your state DOJ website

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12020.htm


the way calif. is, they would save a lot of space, by just saying what you can own........it would take up 2 sentences
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys! I won’t even consider it now....

I just didn’t know if this part was considered as “benign” as a flashhider…

It never hurts to ask the knowledgeable tho -

I’ve heard all the arguments for the M1A’s flash hider and I still think the muzzle brake gives the average shooter more for the money…

If I can possess a flashhider that’s not mounted, why not a “CrankFire” as long as it’s NOT mounted on the gun???

I’ll still get one – but it will stay in Nevada as a result of the sage advice I’ve received here…

And BTW, ohioblacksheep - I asked the question in an effort to conform to given laws - not break them. Re-read my post... If I can't ask this type of "general" question on this forum, I'd be happy to leave if requested to do so by the admins here. If I were being truly careless in my observance of the law, I wouldn’t be asking now would I?.

None-the-less I will not attempt to receive via shipping any such item in California…. ~K?~ EOS
 

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If you got to ask here you should probably talk to your laywer instead. If I were you I would drive the two hours and shell out for the gas, I got disk problems too, you learn to live with it because the alternative stinks. Lou is right, don't get in trouble because you will cause all of us grief, it aint worth it anyway. In your state you will be probably be as far up the creek as you would be with a FA with the Feds so it don't make much sense. Hotch
 

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Slick said:
If I can possess a flashhider that’s not mounted, why not a “CrankFire” as long as it’s NOT mounted on the gun???

you are asking the wrong group of folks that question.......none of us can answer why any gun laws are the way they are......that question would be better given to the idiots in your state DOJ....but I wouldn't hold my breath getting any logical answer ...it will probably just boil down to, "we do for the sake of the children" or some other such nonsense
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry 'bout that..

Well, I?m sorry I seemed to have asked the ?wrong? question here. I never intended to play anyone in harms way least of all myself. Why ask? If I weren?t inclined to follow the law, I would not have done so. Sorry to ask if anyone else has been through this question. I should have gotten an attorney and asked because maybe someone else already did.

Forgive me because I won?t repeat this mistake. Over and OUT!
 

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Slick said:
Well, I?m sorry I seemed to have asked the ?wrong? question here. I never intended to play anyone in harms way least of all myself. Why ask? If I weren?t inclined to follow the law, I would not have done so. Sorry to ask if anyone else has been through this question. I should have gotten an attorney and asked because maybe someone else already did.

Forgive me because I won?t repeat this mistake. Over and OUT!
why the chip on your shoulder? I certinly didn't mean it to be sarcastic......honestly, who in the gun community can figure out why these gun laws are the way they are? you are one of us, if you can't answer that question.....how are we suppose to?

in any event, if it took some kind offensive to my respone, I can't help that.......but it was not meant to be condesending.....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
slowfire said:
why the chip on your shoulder? I certinly didn't mean it to be sarcastic......honestly, who in the gun community can figure out why these gun laws are the way they are? you are one of us, if you can't answer that question.....how are we suppose to?

in any event, if it took some kind offensive to my respone, I can't help that.......but it was not meant to be condesending.....

No chip on my shoulder?YOU posted facts that I did not know of.... Thank you !

I appreciate your reply. However I resent any insinuation on the behalf of anyone that felt that my post was intended as a question on how to circumvent state law? That?s simply NOT the case OK? I can own a flash hider as long as it?s not installed on the rifle and went through that whole ordeal before I bought my M1A. In the end, I bought a Springfield M1A (with muzzle brake) since they ought to know how to build a legal rifle. I also opted out of getting a 1919a4 kit and paying Extra for an Ohio ?rapid-fire? because of my unfamiliarity with this firearm and my desire to whip out papers to prove it?s legal.

My ire rests in thinking that (some) people here seem to think I?m out to circumvent laws when I?m asking for advice on what people KNOW about it more than I do? I don?t even have the gun yet for Christ sakes?
 

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You can answer your own questions sometimes

You can answer your own questions sometimes Slick by just looking around... Have you been to any gun shows lately? You won't find a single tact-trigger here ie. multiburst trigger system crank fires included. Like you keep your rifles in stockade out of state so must this crankfire device... If it ain't sold here you can't have it here and not supposed to have it shipped here thats why you don't find gun owners moving here. Don't be down on the guys on this board we Californians can be irritating at times with these questions... Everyone is here on this board for one common good of promoting this shooting sport... AW's Mags/Clips high caps tact-triggers are a big no no here. Like they said even though a company may ship them here it would be you breaking the law; further more even though you could buy a flashider here I would keep it far away from my 1919 because it can easily be added... Not like the SKS's with those stupid welded on muzzle breaks. A few things on that list that I think slowfire posted my father had shipped here years ago needless to say after I went through his estate they went bye bye... If you have questions on what you can have and not have go to the Cali Department of Justice website and do a search in the firearm division and 99% of the time you will find your answer. Thats where I've been doing my research taking advantage of all the loopholes as they say...
Its good you ask we need to keep our numbers strong here:)
 

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From reading this whole thread (Mainly cuz I'm also wanting a crankfire), it seems to me most folks were just expressing concern. sheesh, the laws are so different and weird in every state I believe we are all just a little paranoid. :eek:

Randy Weaver anyone?
 

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Hey

Hey moderator Mark do you guys have close to the same restrictions we have in California? Where do you guys go to shoot on the island?

Questions are good it just seems that the majority of guys that live in non restricted states get irritable they have a thread going on right now that has really gotten out of control About ... Seizing guns now... started as a warning and now it has moved onto why aren't you guys doing something about your rights and NRA bashing... It is adviseble though that Slick should find the link to California Department of Justice Firearms division so he can research any info that he may get here or any other source... Always ask questions. I always say there are no stupid question just stupid people that don't ask. I found this out the hard way this weekend (no details will be included):eek:

Slick just always err on the cautious side we wanna keep as many people out on the firing line as possible... Research Research Research is just like Headspace Headspace Headspace if not done correctly it could blow up in your face. Keep the good toys in Nevada. The Cali-Nevada folks I think are brewing up a shoot in Nevada sometime in Fall, so be on the lookout. Can't wait to pick up my toys in Nevada and play...
 

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..California and Minnesota are the only states that have laws against "trigger devise

I don't own a trigger devise and have no intention of obtaining one. I live in Minnesota and to be honest had no idea that they are illegal here. Minnesota laws are pretty liberal. We can own machine guns if they are historical and not currently used by any military organization. They tried to pass an assault rifle ban back in 1993/94 and it passed out of committee and went to the full house where they would not even consider it unless a "right to bear arms amendement" to the State constitution was also considered. The bill was promptly withdrawn. At one time you couldn't own a machine gun unless it held 12 rounds or less in the magazine and there were other restrictions that were withdrawn when they decided that machineguns should be legal. That's why I am surprized to hear about this restriction. Of course I have never known anyone who had a crankfire or similar devise either. I guess I need to do some research in this area.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I greatly appreciate the practical advice I received from those of you that understand my desire to conform to the laws here?

Yes, it raised my ire a bit to see some suggest that ?I was setting someone up for a fall? or trying to get someone to ?help me break the law? ? because that?s the absolute FARTHEST thing from the truth. I thought I clearly conveyed my intentions of staying within the letter of the law when I made the original post? Had I been the type of individual to ignore such laws I would have just went out and bought one and not told anybody ? right?

The fact IS that I am a government employee in this state and the highly sensitive nature of my employment (no, I?m not an LEO) dictates that I adhere strictly to codes of moral turpitude. What that means is that I can lose my job over the slightest misdemeanor regardless of whether or not it pertains to my job duties or job affiliation. I am held to standards as high or in many cases higher than CA peace officers and have absolutely NO intention of placing my job, freedom, or property at risk by violating a petty law. I hope this is clear.

I actually try and keep on hand (as current as possible) a copy of California?s ?dangerous weapons control law? ? which is where Slowfire excerpted that information. Now that I know where to find it on-line, I will use that resource to insure I have the most current information. The bad thing here, is these laws are amended so frequently that hardly any reasonably person can stay current in their knowledge.

I have a friend that owns a gun store that has a metal hand grenade attached to a plaque that says ?complaint department ? take a number? and there?s a tag on the pin of that grenade that has a ?1? on it. I wonder how he will react when I tell him that?s AGAINST the law NOW!!!

I have another friend that?s like to shoot rats when they flood the rice fields. He uses a Ruger 10/22 and mounted a ?BMF activator? on it that he bought right here in town (in CA). I wonder how he will react when I tell him that?s AGAINST the law NOW!!!

I grew up in and era where the constitution had prohibitions against creating and passing ?expose-facto? laws. Today is a frightening age we live in, and I can assure you that I?m leaving the state of California just as soon as it is economically feasible for me to do so. Ha ha, I?m a taxpayer and NOT one of the leaches who place drains on state services ? I?ll be smiling as I pack my possessions and $ and take it all to a state that respects citizens rights that are afforded under the constitution of the United States of America.

The primary reason I asked this question is that I have pistols that use magazines that hold 15 or more rounds and get to keep those? As such there is a distinct disparity between ?possession and installation?.

I hope this explanation helps to clear up any misconceptions that anybody may have had of me and my desire to stay within the laws of this state, thanks.
 

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Slick,

Please forgive my personal paranoia. I've seen a few things lately that have me concerned and they don't involve cranks. I spoke out of turn and I am Sorry...Lou
 

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But even for those of us that live in more gun friendly states a crankfire on a 1919 draws a lot of attention and even well meaning cops are often not real up on gun laws and you can have a lot of explaining to do. I am naturally paranoide, I have lots of run ins with cops, I have never got in trouble but its not real fun. I am not sure God even has these laws figured out, I just got the Sportsman guide today and see that swords can no longer be shipped to AZ AL CA CO CT DE NY. Try to figure that one out? What is a sword for these days other than a collectable? Oh, waite, they got them more leathal double edged assult swords! They obvously have no sporting purpose.....Hotch
 

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Yeah Slick. Lou is the man and wasn't insinuating anything. I believe your newer to the forum so just trust me! BTW, the 2nd post on this thread answered the question. Oh, that was my post! :D

.:mad: = period and I'm mad about it!

Each state has a taxer payer paid for DOJ website, usually under the office of the attorney general, with the current weapons control laws. It's taking the time to read them, (some parts 4 or 5 times!) then keeping up with the changes.

"The bad thing here, is these laws are amended so frequently that hardly any reasonably person can stay current in their knowledge."

This is not true actually. Once you know the laws and where to refer to them, there's not that many changes per year. That's because we get most of the anti's BS attempts shot down or withdrawn. But when the laws do change, you better know what those changes were.

For any Kali's that need to do some reading...
The 2005 changes effective 1/1/06 ; http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/2005bills.htm
All the rest; http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/index.html

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse." I stil remember that from the You and the Law classes from grade school in the 60's! ****! I am gettin old! :eek: LOL
 
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