[47lincsled]

I have four girls, 5-7-8-10 years old, they like to get on my computer and watch videos on youtube or play girlly games on line, one of their favorites is a dress up game, where you can pick a girl and dress her up in different out fits, harmless enough, tonight one of the girls was having a problem getting some thing to work,I was helping her sort through the clothes and saw a T-shirt with "Che"s face on it,I was pissed,my oldest girl is studying the second world war right now and was concerned that some of our german decendents might have had something to do with the murder of the jews, she really hates Hitler right now, so i explained that the man on that shirt was very much like hitler, it makes me sick that they are aloowed to do things like that, I know 99% of the people that wear his likeness have no idea who he was or what he did but yet would scream if you wore a shirt with the rebel flag on it. I truly believe that this is all part of the destuction of the youth, look at those worthless sluts that beat the girl almost to death, the girl that got beat up her own mother didn't know aht her daughter had written on her my space page that ticked off the other girls, heres your sign woman, maybe if you knew what your kid was doing she wouldn't have got her head bashed in, it's a scary world and my rant has gone long enough,but I just couldn't take it anymore,goodnight and watch your kids.

 

[Rory]

47, did your parents always know what you were doing? at 16 years old? no way. neither did mine and i am only 29. the girls that beat up that other girl are in for a world of hurt and they deserve every bit of everything that they get from kidnapping to felonious assault to false imprisonment. they were all in the holding cells giggling about their weekend plans getting messed up.

che vs hitler.

not that i am a supporter of either but do ya really think that they equate to each other?

the commodification of che's visage is easy to understand. he represents a "revolution" this is an idea that youth of almost every generation and culture can embrace. the idea of fighting for something new and different than what their parents and leaders are prescribing. again a poor choice but one that has stuck none the less. those wearing the tshirts are totally against what che stood for in the first place. i mean they just bought a tshirt that symbolizes rebellion from a big box store with money that their parents earned from working for the man. it is pretty ironic really but whatever.

r

 

[blackrifles]

Che was just a murdering henchman, Hitler was a psychotic ruler that got henchmen to murder for him.

 

[Rory]

Che was just a murdering henchman, Hitler was a psychotic ruler that got henchmen to murder for him.

pretty much sums up my view on the situation.

 

[blackrifles]

I want the shirt with skeletal Che face, says "Che's dead, GET OVER IT!"

That would rattle some cages near the local colleges.

 

[Rory]

I want the shirt with skeletal Che face, says "Che's dead, GET OVER IT!"

That would rattle some cages near the local colleges.

i think that you are giving them too much merit.

 

[47lincsled]

Che VS hitler

I know Che wasn't in Hiltler's class of crazy, but right now I have to use what my girls know, he was more on the lines of a junior Lenin or Mao, if Castro hadn't been so afraid of him I believe he could have gone on to higher level craziness, or he might have actually helped Cuba, he was a ruthless killer and that is some thing that little kids need to know, as far as these stupid teenagers that actually buy that crap with his likeness they have no idea what he really did, only what the socialist elite want them to hear, much like King or all the other communist ramble that were supported by higher powers to help tear down this country, and it is working.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

he was a ruthless killer and that is some thing that little kids need to know, as far as these stupid teenagers that actually buy that crap with his likeness they have no idea what he really did

And then again, why WOULDN'T they admire a ruthless killer? I mean, look at their 'role models' offered to them by the MSM- gangsta rap thugs, drug dealers and pimps are glorified as tough and cool, and to be feared and respected. Che was a leftist scumbag, but even HE had a reason that he fought for, not just money and stupid trinkets. Compared to who they see getting famous and being told are great, important people, I'm just surprised that Hitler T-shirts aren't fashionware... yet. Probably be the "in" thing for next season; who knows.

I'm about to the point of feeling like Conrad's words twisted in Apocalypse Now are becoming more appropriate with every passing year- "Drop the Bomb; Exterminate ALL the Brutes!"

 

[Shattered]

And then again, why WOULDN'T they admire a ruthless killer?

Sure.... remember the line from "Natural Born Killers"?

"I mean, I'm not a mass murderer or anything, but if I was, I'd want to be like Micky and Mallory Knox"

 

[Pvt.Joker]

The very fact that "Natural Born Killers" was a commercially produced and promoted major movie says plenty about the "entertainment" industry, in and of itself.

 

[Shattered]

The very fact that "Natural Born Killers" was a commercially produced and promoted major movie says plenty about the "entertainment" industry, in and of itself.

I thought it was pretty good, myself. Woody Harrelson and Robert Downey Jr. had great rolls.

I thought it was kinda odd it NEVER hit TV and had any replays.

 

[Rory]

that was a great piece of film

 

[mt-ac]

The "Entertainment Industry"

The so called "Entertainment Industry" has for many years been the leader in attempting to destroy America. Be it fashions, movies, or music those behind it are making money from destroying anyone that says "we have standards". My best example is the rapper 50 Cent, his lyrics include such ideas as rape and murdering LEO's. And he makes millions of $'s, and he is only one of many. Others advocate drugs, for example Pink Floyd. With these people for role models what do you think happens to the youth? It is amazing that most youngsters still grow up and lead good lives.

Since most on here do not know me I will explain my background; for 29 years I worked in the music industry until being terminated last spring.

 

[Bill S]

Che was just a murdering henchman, Hitler was a psychotic ruler that got henchmen to murder for him.

Che actually didn't kill many people. He was a soldier during the fighting in the Sierra Maestra - don't know if he actually killed anyone in combat. As a minister in the rebel government he did oversee the imprisonment and executions of Batista's henchmen during the first months of Fidel's rule - but they were probably deserving of it (Batista was a ruthless dictator with no political idealism, which is what made Fidel's revolution so easy). But the rest of Che's time in Cuba was as minister of economy - no killing here, just bureaucracy and publicity and trying to get the sugar cane harvest up to pre-revolution levels. Fidel never feared him, at least in terms of being replaced by him - Che was an Argentine and could not become ruler of Cuba. But when Che was given an international diplomatic role he started criticizing the Soviets and siding with the Chinese against them - and this caused diplomatic problems for Fidel and Cuba. That's when Fidel suggested he move along and go back to being a guerrilla - in some other country. Che tried to lead an uprising in the Congo, but couldn't get the people there to organize and listen to him. So he went to Bolivia and tried to start a revolution there, only to get stomped.

It's funny that he is remembered most as a guerrilla leader, because he was not particularly good at it. His real contribution to the "revolutionary cause" was that he died young and photographed well. Thus he became a heroic-looking martyr. But he was a long way from being a Hitler. He was not responsible for anywhere near as many deaths, nowhere near as much destruction. Granted, his image has been used as part of the packaging of a political system that is widely hated. But it's more image than substance.

Someone made a comment about the hypocracy of allowing Che t-shirts while condemning t-shirts with the confederate flag - and I completely agree. The sad truth there is that the people doing this are victims of a double mythology - one that says the Confederacy was evil, and the other that says that Che was a great hero.

 

[Rory]

so the actual acts of che...
as far as what he did in any wartime arena, what would you suggest as a decent reading material that could be center based rather than either camp (canonization or hitlerification hahaha)

i understood that he was on the lower level of being an evil henchmen and that is where he proved prowess to the greater cause of the .gov. from there went on to take gov serving roles. thanks to the cia became a martyr. thanks to a pretty sweet looking monochromatic outline, won the hearts of teenagers round the world.


r

 

[Bill S]

... what would you suggest as a decent reading material that could be center based rather than either camp (canonization or hitlerification hahaha)

Unfortunately, most people who are inspired to write about him are "inspired" by their leanings for or against him. (To sell books authors need to convince the buying public that the character/theme they are writing about is dramatic.) So your best bet is to read both sides critically and separate the drama from the actual fact. That said, Jon Lee Anderson's "Che Guevara - A Revolutionary Life" is pretty good. Lots of fact, although it does have the underlying theme that Che was a "mythic figure that needs to be analyzed".

There is no doubt that the Cuban government has fully enjoyed marketing the Che image, both within the country and across the world. Photogenic martyrs are always good press. And Che was a good writer who pitched well the ideals of his revolution.

Even in Che's own writings, his journey to Bolivia was like don Quixote attacking the windmills. If he had not died in Bolivia, I suspect he would never have reached the iconic level he has today. His Bolivian revolution was doomed before he started it - he was an outsider with no support from the peasants he claimed to be liberating. If he hadn't been killed there, if he had somehow escaped, the adventure would have been as forgotten as his efforts to do the same thing in the Congo. Without a victory to his name and no martyrdom, he would soon have been the Ralph Nader of the global communist revolution. Or he would have gone back to being a bureaucrat, and hence would be held in about the same esteem as many other surviving participants of the Sierra Maestra campaign. (A number of them still live, and hold government jobs - but who here can even name them, other than Raul and Fidel?)

added as an edit: I once met an older gentelman who had been a photographer in Havana at the time of the revolution, and he showed me a bunch of pictures of the people of the early days of the revolution. I asked him what his opinions of the individual leaders were. He said "We respected Fidel, because we had to. We loved Camilo [Cienfuegos] because he was like us - he loved life, baseball and women. We learned to appreciate Che AFTER Camilo taught him to be human." Interestingly, he did not mention Raul. I think Raul has always been just the shadow of his brother. It should be noted that Camilo has also been used as an icon in Cuba - and like Che he was photogenic and died young - only a few years after Fidel took power.