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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Did anyone on this forum win a a "US Tech Manual" on 2016/02/14?

There was a seller with a series of US Tech Manuals like I have never seen before. I tried to gather the ones that were of interest to me (Browning, 1917, 1919, 50BMG, BAR) but two got away. My intent is to scan them and send a high resolution copy to Small Arms Review for their archives and barter with people here for copies of US Military manuals that I don't have to eventually post everything up for free not unlike Steve's Pages, but more focused on WWI and WWII beltfeds and machineguns.

1) Did anyone here score these two items?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-tech-manual-ww2-original-TR-1320-39-Browning-30-m-1919-1300-30G-/172093566465?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=sf4l7T30oYBTKiJx1UU81yb4sro%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-tech-manual-ww2-shotgun-shells-ord3-snlt-3-rockets-ord3-snl-s-9-m3-knife-/172093605342?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=sf4l7T30oYBTKiJx1UU81yb4sro%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

2) Does anyone have any info on these "Tech Manuals" are the just US Military manuals?

3) Has anyone seen manuals bound like these before?

4) Is there a list of all of the manuals, BSDs, drawings, etc. available that cover the Browning machineguns?


Lots of questions, I know. Really curious who got those two manuals.
 

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Did anyone on this forum win a a "US Tech Manual" on 2016/02/14?

There was a seller with a series of US Tech Manuals like I have never seen before. I tried to gather the ones that were of interest to me (Browning, 1917, 1919, 50BMG, BAR) but two got away. My intent is to scan them and send a high resolution copy to Small Arms Review for their archives and barter with people here for copies of US Military manuals that I don't have to eventually post everything up for free not unlike Steve's Pages, but more focused on WWI and WWII beltfeds and machineguns.

1) Did anyone here score these two items?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-tech-man...30oYBTKiJx1UU81yb4sro%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-tech-man...30oYBTKiJx1UU81yb4sro%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

2) Does anyone have any info on these "Tech Manuals" are the just US Military manuals?

3) Has anyone seen manuals bound like these before?

4) Is there a list of all of the manuals, BSDs, drawings, etc. available that cover the Browning machineguns?


Lots of questions, I know. Really curious who got those two manuals.
I didn't get any of these but from my experience at RIA publications intended for "library" use tended to have some sort of rigid cover. The one document is apparently some sort of reference list of publications which I have not seen. FM=Field Manual which was intended for the user of the item while Technical Manual (TM) was for personnel that maintained/repaired. BSD's (Base Shop Data) were an illustrated"how to do it" publication for use in ordnance shops.

As for drawings, Class and Division drawings were in a set specific to the particular weapon/item. M1917 Browning's were in class 51 Division 10 written 51-10-xx with the xx being the individual part or parts drawings. When these drawings were converted to the letter prefix naming convention the first few sheets of the C&D drawings were retained as a list of applicable parts drawings and finding diagrams and line drawings of the item while parts drawings became letter prefix drawings of individual parts. With the letter prefix system there was no direct connection to the individual item. Drawings one digit apart can (and usually are) be for totally different items. This state of affairs continued until 1951 for the Browning's when the C&D drawings were replaced by 7 digit numbered drawings usually of 6 sheets i.e. sheet 1, sheet2 etc. These sets of drawings duplicated what was on the holdover C&D's that is a line drawing, finding diagram, list of all drawings, material specification and other miscellaneous information such as packaging/packing/shipping requirements.

That's probably waaaaay more than you wanted to know.

PS

You can go here and see many manuals in .pdf including one that details proper methods of conducting executions in the field.

http://www.90thidpg.us/Reference/Manuals/index.html
 

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Discussion Starter #4
kkkriverrats: No such thing as "way more than I wanted to know" EVER! I'll gladly take a complete description and further information on anything, anytime! So thank you for the detail. I did not know most of that so thank you for taking the time.

I'll put up more info once I get my hands on these manuals, unfortunately I am on business travel so it'll be a couple months before I'll see them. Really bummed that I did not get the 30 cal Browning manual.

Thank you for the link!

redroth: That is a new site to me, thank you for the link!


Still hoping that the person that bought the 30-MG manual is a member here.
 

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Those were a mix of TRs (Training Regulations) from the 1920s and 1930s and later SNLs (Standard Nomenclature Lists) from the 1940s and 1950s. They are basically the listings of spare parts and breakdown of all parts for various ordnance items. Actually, the TRs are a bit more complex than that as they often had doctrine and training procedures, maintenance info, and other data besides parts listings. They were sometimes both the field manuals and technical manuals of their day before the info was separated and printed as FMs, TMs, and SNLs.

The blue cloth covered binders with the 1/2" tape retainers were the standard method of binding together groups of similar publications. In WWII, as guns were upgraded often with new versions of parts with different part numbers, the SNLs changed quickly as well. Sometimes, the cover dates are only a few months different from the previous edition. The unit armorers were supposed to keep these binders up to date by discarding the old edition of each pub when a new one was issued. That's why early ones like these on eBay are so hard to find. I've usually found the binders filled with SNLs that are 2" to 3" thick with most of the contents dating from 1944 or 1945 to the early 1950s. Most of the 1943 and earlier dated pubs had been discarded years before as old part numbers became useless and whole weapons like the 1919 tank MG became obsolete.

Fellow board member Craig Johnson has a pretty good accumulation of these and I'm an absolute addict with about 5 or 6 lineal feet of them in the library. I watched the auction but didn't bid, although a few of those aren't in the collection. But I should be able to help with copies of several of them in case you can't run down the winning bidder.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Those were a mix of TRs (Training Regulations) from the 1920s and 1930s and later SNLs (Standard Nomenclature Lists) from the 1940s and 1950s. They are basically the listings of spare parts and breakdown of all parts for various ordnance items. Actually, the TRs are a bit more complex than that as they often had doctrine and training procedures, maintenance info, and other data besides parts listings. They were sometimes both the field manuals and technical manuals of their day before the info was separated and printed as FMs, TMs, and SNLs.

The blue cloth covered binders with the 1/2" tape retainers were the standard method of binding together groups of similar publications. In WWII, as guns were upgraded often with new versions of parts with different part numbers, the SNLs changed quickly as well. Sometimes, the cover dates are only a few months different from the previous edition. The unit armorers were supposed to keep these binders up to date by discarding the old edition of each pub when a new one was issued. That's why early ones like these on eBay are so hard to find. I've usually found the binders filled with SNLs that are 2" to 3" thick with most of the contents dating from 1944 or 1945 to the early 1950s. Most of the 1943 and earlier dated pubs had been discarded years before as old part numbers became useless and whole weapons like the 1919 tank MG became obsolete.

Fellow board member Craig Johnson has a pretty good accumulation of these and I'm an absolute addict with about 5 or 6 lineal feet of them in the library. I watched the auction but didn't bid, although a few of those aren't in the collection. But I should be able to help with copies of several of them in case you can't run down the winning bidder.
Wow thank you ordnance for all the background on these! I'm really excited to have won the ones that I did but really regret not setting my high bid for the 30-cal Brownings manual much higher. I'll get these scanned and put up on some public place for everyone to grab a copy (Google Drive or DropBox or something like that) and maybe we can start putting together a list of documents that exist related to these MGs that we all love so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi,
You may find this seller of manuals very helpful, he sells photocopies of those manuals inexpensively:

http://www.military-info.com/mphoto/p060i.htm
Redroth I forgot to say thanks. THANKS!

He has the one that got away!
  • TR 1320-39 Weapons. Browning Tank Machine Gun, Caliber .30 Model of 1919 (1 May 1926); 74 pages, 24 illus. Price 8.00 {Item No.3309}

  • TR 1300-30G Infantry and Aircraft Armament. Browning Aircraft Machine Guns, Caliber.30, M1918MI and M1919 (21 May 1929); 84 pages, 33 illus. Price 9.00 {Item No.3300}

Fascinating website and company that I was not aware of prior to your suggestion so thank you for posting redroth!
 
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