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I'm still in for my 11...

Chris,

Thanks for the update. I am still in for my original 6 lowers as well as the 5 "extras" I've also paid for. From what I've read so far that means I may need to send an additional $66 for the increase.

I am not happy about it but fact of the matter is, these are crazy times for everyone in this industry right now so I'll bite my tongue and go ahead and send in the extra money when instructed to do so.

I am one of the folks that have never had any of my PM's replied too... but since my checks have all cleared I am using this as my "confirmation" of order.

Let's just keep the orders in place as is so that we get them DONE and then deal with our ill feelings regarding DoubleStar later. I'm afraid stirring the pot now will only make matters worse.

IF you decide to change the mfr. I would suggest getting the MULTI designation on them but I would hope that the "logo" is something legitimate that won't affect the "value" of the receivers. I am NOT in favor of some sort of "poke in the eye" logo just to vent at DoubleStar.

Anyways... try to take lots of deep breaths on this one. I'm sure there are far more people that have your back on this than there are tin-foil wearing asshats who live to ***** about something. :eek:
 

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I see several issues that need to be resolved:

1: We need a detailed contract (signed by both parties)
2: They have $100,000 of yours/our money and they are collecting interest
3: Lead time

Not all manufactures are the same. Some are better than others. Who is their secondary maker of these lowers? Is the quality going to be the same or better than their primary? Will they or can they reveal who is making these lowers?

IF we have to pay more, then I would get a contract with a guaranteed lead time (30-60 days).Plus the amount we pay extra should be less since they are collecting interest. In addition, the balance that would be owed should not be paid until most/part of the order is received.

I am in this for the long haul. I just hope we get these soon. I agree going direct manufacture will take longer than what Double Star can do since they already have contracts with the manufactures. Lets get a contract with a lead time stated (30-60 days) and get this over with.

I am sure Chris will make the right decision. Just let me know when and how much extra to send.
 

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I pretty much agree with most of what's been said here. I'd like to add a few things:

1. Let's hold off on a phone blitz to Doublestar. If I were on the receiving end of that, it would be very easy for me to say "this is too much grief, I have plenty of other paying customers with no grief, here's your money back". Then we're at the back of the line trying to find a new manufacturer, and we might get our lowers before Hitlery gets sworn in in 2016.

2. If someone else can beat DS's lead time and price, then I don't really care who's name is on it as long as it's quality and in-spec. Let's be honest... a lower is a lower is a lower, unless it says "Colt", has a go-fast switch, or gets around a state-level AWB.

And THANK YOU CUE for all of your hard work on this.
 

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reciever increase

well, aside from the supposed 8 dollar increase in the coatings( i personally dont see that as im sure a coating vcompany is probably charging a heck of a lot lless then 8.oo each to coat these recievers) the price of the raw aluminum has dropped like a rock since the order went in. I think they are screwing with us, even though it is a large order for us, it sounds as if it is not as large as we think. We do need a written contractual agreement. it should be based on the price they originally quoted for the original amount of recievers. Aif aditional calls to doublestar created an increase for some of the later recievers, we should all bear the price increase equally. I would like to know how much someone would charge us to coat 4,000 recievers. If doublestar could be talked into dropping the price to us for something like 16.00 per reciever and then the recievers could be coated elsewhere for like 8.00 the difference taking the shipping out should go to cue. As far as spending a few more bucks per reciever... yea im in for it as i think the longer we wait the less chance we will be getting them. I kinda wonder if we should not be sending some e mails to doublestar ourselves as concerned consumers. It might of course cause them to cancel our order too!
 

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Chris, Thanks for the update. Lets' just pay the six bucks, get it done and move on. It's like fighting a parking ticket, not worth the time. We all can decide on our own if we'll ever do business again with Doublestar. I won't.
Thanks for your effort.

I agree 100% I have no problem sending you the extra cash! I want a Doublestar receiver as they are a quality lower IMHO! Thanks for all your work!

Troy
 

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I agree 100% I have no problem sending you the extra cash! I want a Doublestar receiver as they are a quality lower IMHO! Thanks for all your work!

Troy
Its no different from any other lower. All these companies "making" lowers don't make their own. There are a few manufacturers and they stamp logos and serial numbers on them for the various companies.
 

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Chris,

Thanks for the update. It is my belief that 99% of the people in on this group buy understand that this isn't your doing. So thanks for the work you and Dianne have invested. At this time I will go along with whatever you decide. My only concern is that we get something from DS in writing so that in another few weeks we aren't told it's still 30-60 days and another $8 dollar price increase. At this point I think the old saying is correct that "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". After this is complete then scream, ***** and complain to the BBB and all other gun forums that we all peruse. Thanks again for all the work and headaches.
 

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I've been quietly following the process; but I would have to agree that it's probably best to just stay with DS, pay the extra $6, and get the deal done with as fast as possible.

The only thing I'd really like to see posted is some sort of actual delivery estimate. The last one I saw in Chris' post was 30-60 days (or sooner) from 1-15-09. Is that still the best they can give us or can we narrow it down better?

I ask because while I don't think it's going to be a Day-1 priority for a new AWB, I do think it's quite high on their to-do list; so time could be something of an issue since who knows what all weapons/parts/kits/etc might be included in new legislation this time around.

Some people low on the delivery list could find themselves completely unable to build.


All that said, once again I would like to express my sincere thanks to Chris and his family for the putting up with the immeasurable hassle this has become.

'Above and beyond the call' doesn't begin to describe it.
 

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I'd say pay the $6-$8 extra each and be done with it... Then AFTER we get the receivers in hand DS and their local BBB should be bombarded with complaints...

Hell $6 isnt much nowdays.. Not worth the headache to fight it..
 

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I do not trust DS! They have made a bad business decision and are now in violation of trade practice law. What's to say that they do not make another bad business decision? If you can go direct to the actual manufacture then I believe that that is the wisest decision. Of course that would also need a writen contract.


That said I'm in it so I'm going to ride it out. I have another person in on my order so I'll have to check with him on his share. He will also want a definate delivery date.

I'd suggest that you have a firm written contract set up with staged delivery dates. This should also have a financial penelty for not meeting their dates - this tends to keep people from pumping you to sell your order when someone else is offering to pay more for it.

I do not trust DS anylonger and who can say what the quality of the "secondary" manufacture will be???? Makes me very nervous to have a "Double Star" reciever that may not be up to "Double Star" specs.
 

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Its no different from any other lower. All these companies "making" lowers don't make their own. There are a few manufacturers and they stamp logos and serial numbers on them for the various companies.
I am aware of this and would have no problem who makes it! I am just worried about getting a no-name receiver that is not of much value! I know a lower is a lower unless its a Colt as long as its in spec. Around here Doublstars are pretty popular and sell fairly quick in the shops! JMO

T:)
 

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Chris,
Just let us know when to send the extra funds. I am still in for this buy. I will also be sending you some extra funds for some beer or scotch, etc.. for your headache in dealing with this. I understand this is beyond your control. Whatever decision you reach is ok with me. Chris
 

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Lowers

We pay the 6.00 to 8.00 per lower. we get a solid ship date.

then when we get the lowers in our hands and think back on how we all got a good deal on lowers for 84.00 to 86.00 each..

and think about how Chris must have aged at least 5 years from the group buy from hell
 

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I would rather pay the extra and I got 4 original and 10 xtra and have the receivers than not have any receivers and see them get banned in the next few months
 

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I have 1 question. In this group buy is there not 1 lawyer involved in this buy that could rattle DoubleStars cage?

I would rather just pay the $6 at this point and get it over. Then we all send complaints to the BBB. Imagine 3000 complaints to the BBB about this company.

Thanks again for your hard work.
 

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We pay the 6.00 to 8.00 per lower. we get a solid ship date.

then when we get the lowers in our hands and think back on how we all got a good deal on lowers for 84.00 to 86.00 each..

and think about how Chris must have aged at least 5 years from the group buy from hell
You mean $86 to $94 which is not as great of a deal since I have two brand new Superior Arms lowers and LPK's sitting in the safe that were ordered on Nov 28th and delivered on Dec 18 that were $78 per from AIM. They are $84 now.

It sounds like Doublestar has pushed us to the back of the line and we are still months out. The remark about honoring the price but putting us at the back of the line with the original supplier is not acceptable since they have been sitting on 100 k for a month.

It would be a shame for the ATFE to do a complete audit of their facilities and records.
 

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I agree we should probably ride it out with DS at this point. I'm not too happy about them jacking up the price once money was in hand though (Even if it was partial payment).Just let me know how\when to send in the extra money.

I am in this for the long haul (hopefully a 30 to 60 day or shorter haul anyways),

dcwilliams29id
 

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Get a contract from DS in writing.
I'll pay the $6 extra
We get the receivers by the start of summer.

CUE; If DS is telling you the truth, the hangup appears to be with the coatingsguys. It really wouldn't matter if you reached an agreement with another manufacturer, the ones finishing them off would still be the hold up.
 

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* Franks71vw has or is checking with a manufacture which I am not opposed to, but lets think this out.
1. I am not about to get into a whole nother mess of waiting.
2. What will be the later value of a Never heard of lower.

If Franks71VW knows of someone that I can talk to I would be happy to explore that route. However, I am going to finish this buy and it will not be passed off to anyone else although I appreciate the offer.

* I am getting messages from people wanting to cancell their order all together and want a refund. This WILL cost me money, but I will do it. I have a large chunk of the money tied up at Doublestar right now and if people start canceling then I will have to have Doublestar refund my payment which will cause even more chaos. Plus me getting money orders and postage.


* If you want to continue with Doublestar it will cost an additional $6 per receiver. It is still cheaper then the other lowers that are out there, but poor businessmanship on their part.




To be totally clear.....The value of a doublestar lower is no better than the value of a Charles Daly, High Standard or LRB....Why? Because they are all made by the same manufacturer. The only stripped AR lowers to have better value are going to be Colt lowers, due to the name, and billet lowers, neither of which applies here. A milspec lower machined from a forging by one company and distributed to four different "AR" companies carries the same value.

This change up only makes immediate sense if the manufacturer can keep the order in the same que which would then keep the delivery times as they are now. From what I am understanding, Doublestar is saying if they stay with the manufacturer they normally buy from, then it's longer and stays the same price, but if they use a different manufacturer, then the price goes up and he wait time goes down......

As for cancelling orders, I know it sucks and I know it will cost you due to the time you have invested, extra labor etc., however, if a customer paid fifty bucks for a widget and then sometime after that you tell the customer the new price is now one hundred bucks....well I don't think one can force a customer to accept a higher price...Doublestar would have to refund the entire payment you have made, since they are the ones that are changing the terms.

To be honest here, and this is from the mouth of the SUPPLIER to doublestar, the price of the receivers goes DOWN after one thousand units, NOT UP as doublestar has done. Shipping costs have actually come down, not up as fuel has come down from the four bucks a gallon we had a few months back. I don't see why they are trying to blame shipping as a partial culprit. As for the anodizing......I'd be happy to take my receivers machine finished and in the white...I can anodize or otherwise apply whatever finish I want on my own without paying a price increase. Doublestar is LYING about the price going up, and using the already tendered down payment and fear about increasing the wait times as a way to coerce the group buy to accept the additional increase.

NONE OF THIS is your fault, but in a sense, they are almost comitting extortion....pay more, or you will not get your **** for six to eight months......simple extortion.
 

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Lets pay the $6 - $8 per receiver and get the deal done Chris. The increase isn't going to break us, and it is still less expensive that going out to find another deal. I really don't think that DS is trying to hose us. That doesn't mean that what they are doing is easy to swallow, or that it is ethical. If you consider the fact that they are waaaay behind in the production of their rifles, our threatening them with cancellation of the 4K order will not hurt them. Also consider that they are going to make a LOT more profit from the sale of those rifles than they will from our lower purchase. To cancel the order and begin the search for another supplier would only result in further delay of receipt of the lowers. All these suppliers are at max capacity. Lets not cut off our nose to spite our face. Try to get a firm delivery commitment from DS and let me know when you need the additional funds to get this deal done.

Gary
 
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