[Roc Rat]

Don't shoot the messenger! I normally avoid Olbermann, but I heard about this on the radio today,,,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25252591

http://www.stopoilspeculators.com/

 

[phalanx]

Speculators ,Banks ? good post Roc ,I'm not angry ,but that is like saying that a swarm of Mosquito's carried off my truck.
Its Big Oil ,Thats like saying i get $5.00 every time i drink a beer.
Then it is the Saudis ,and all they can say is ,Pleeeese.
And all these loop holes they supposedly have found ,????????????
And i am sure the Economy's of all these nations including ours are going to sit there and just let them cheat that system while their Country's are going in the tube.
And no one can find out who they are , Right.
And it is causing huge deficits that have to be payed ,Now that is true.
China controls to much of our Money ,so is that.
The standard of living of Americans has gone way down ,imagine that
We are going broke and they want to let 20Mill Mexicans in here ,and Bush does Nothing , Wow really
They say Bush is a Globalist , you think
How can we pay for this war ,welfare ,bail out social security , I haven't a clue

Lets see ,first it was the Arabs.
Then its big oil.
Now its speculators ,man thats a lot of speculators ,and after all these years how come these speculators have just showed up on the worlds oil supply's?
Well they changed things making it easier for them ! oh and i guess when this change happened and the people of this country started losing their jobs ,factory's shutting down ,Banks folding ,there was just nothing the Government could do to stop what could be the biggest economic collapse in our History ,I am sure they feel our pain , because we can no longer drive huge cars ,RVs, eat like hogs, buy smokes ,ammo and 2k dollar guns.
Yup ,its them speculators they done it , I hear it on the TV.
They got web sites all about it ,they show the numbers showing how its done.
Well go do it then , I know a lot of really rich oil guys in Houston that did get that way off oil ,how come they are not doing it ?
If the Biggest crooks in the Country the Clinton's are not in on it something smells.

And i am employed by big oil ,and if were all the things they say it is ,it wouldnt be real hard to find out who it is.

 

[phalanx]

OK ,lets follow the money and see why your gas is this high this fast.
Let me introduce you to my little friend:

Hello ,my name is China ,I was once very poor and a Communist Country.
Then some stupid Americans made trade deals with me for cheap labor and they sell my junk in America in Places like Wal Mart Make big American Money.
I make little money but because i am Communist ,i keep it all and only give out little to my people.
Lots of Years go by and more American Company's come to me so i make even more Money.
Soon i am buying ,and loaning ,and i all but own the Economy's of of lots of Country's.
I export far more to America than they do me ,in fact i get some of my stuff back with a profit
I get things that help me build my Military real big and better than ever before.
My people start doing much better ,they buy DVD player from America made here ,you see i win all the way around because i don't believe in human rights.
Now i loan money to America ,Banks ,CC company's ,even the Government big time . I get all that interest ,and the Americans love to spend buying my stuff
with my money , such a good thing for me.
My people look at America ,they drive Big cars ,have big homes ,make over $25.00 an hour , but my people mostly still ride bicycle.
They want car also ,not big ,just car ,so they get little cars made here and try to look more like America ,that are the only people on earth living like that on my Credit
But i am Communist Government , so not to much to fast and i need more oil ,lots more oil ,but America uses lots of it.
But America spends way to much ,loan to much ,soon living on Credit.
Banks spend on stupid things ,Bush starts big War ,Health care to high ,Kids not work ,welfare is letting to many Americans do nothing .
Then big Earth Quake here ,kill many people ,very expensive ,I am sick of America spending my Money so i want some back or a higher interest rate.
But spending has made much money gone now ,so i drill for oil in American coastal waters and i have no competition ,i also own much of Americas markets,along with Mexico ,and South America.
Americans live to rich for all the rest of the places i own.
So i find way and Bush find way to help me get my money and make Americans not so rich!!
Others go along with me also ,Bush say nothing Because he not want Country to know how stupid they have been all along.
Gas go up on Market i pressure ,no big cars ,no big jobs or homes , and Bush make things up so people blame many things ,Bush not want people to think about how him and Congress still make big money.
America spend less on Military is good for me ,soon all America live like Chinaman, economy collapse ,China own Homes ,Banks ,and tell America what to do.
China not so stupid.

 

[GWR1]

OK, "It's too late to deal with the bastards, but too early to shoot them!"

Or, is it?

"The Tree Of Liberty needs to be periodically watered with the blood of Patriots."


Carry On!
Gary
><>

 

[Roc Rat]

OK, "It's too late to deal with the bastards, but too early to shoot them!"

Or, is it?

"The Tree Of Liberty needs to be periodically watered with the blood of Patriots."


Carry On!
Gary
><>

Hope you got a good stockpile of ammo,,, All of us,, we're gonna need it! It'll be a TARGET RICH environment.

 

[Bill S]

Now its speculators ,man thats a lot of speculators ,and after all these years how come these speculators have just showed up on the worlds oil supply's?

Hello ,my name is China ,I was once very poor and a Communist Country. Then some stupid Americans made trade deals with me ...

Once upon a time China was a poor communist country. Then they acquired Hong Kong - one of the world's most important economic trading centers. They learned the value of capitalism, and learned how to become speculators. Internally, at least in terms of controlling it's peasants, China remains communist. This allows them to utilize the country's wealth for it's newfound joy of external capitalism. And externally, these guys are as bloodthirsty as any capitalists anywhere have ever been.

China will exploit its own poor peasants as cheap labor for foreign businesses, and will use its newly acquired capitalist skills to buy up all the world's resources - and will manipulate the economies of its competitors to bring them under control. If the U.S. is its chief rival in terms of petroleum - simply push the oil prices up high enough (through speculation) to cause economic crisis in America (meanwhile making money off the speculation). As the American economy suffers, Americans will buy less petroleum (less competition) and - as a great bonus - will only be able to afford buy cheap Chinese crap (more business and money for China). Yes, they have to play the game carefully so that their direct investments in American business don't turn into losses - but the long term gains will offset any short term losses. They will eventually own us.

 

[phalanx]

Bill it is just what we are told ,and see ,and ,from the paper side it leans very heavily in the way i am saying. Remember when the War was still going at first all the story's about all that oil we were going to get now out of Iraq? Why do we not see it ? or hear about it. Its being produced , and from my read outs i have a good idea where it is going ,and so do the people who do my same job even in Kali when i talk to them. we compare things sometimes and i will tell you something is very wrong here. To be honest i have to watch it ,i could get fired so i cant say a lot ,so bear with me a little and try to keep an open mind like i know you do. We believe our troops are there to protect the New Iraq from being taken over , Your smart guys ,think about why we are really there ,because we are good dudes ? And why don't we hear about all that oil anymore ?
I know what part the speculators play in this and i know the % of what they are causing. And in all fairness to Roc who is my Friend he is only trying to bring light to this so it isn't right that i get smart butt about it and Roc i apologize.Roc is right to a point in his research ,but if you take a Gallon of Gas ,and you see the amount of that Gas that actually is going to the Speculators it isn't much. They are only a bunch smart enough to know what i am saying is real and get in on a little bit of the Pie. We have a code system that identifies all of this ,it has been that way for years ,and speculation % is on there and who they are .All of a sudden i get this new code , its in my software , but unlike the other codes it is a dead end and we are told to just process it as the rest. Why do you guys think we get the work we do and not Big Blue ?
Three times now i have heard the Media blame someone for this mess and all three times i have heard people go on about it knowing it isn't right.
I know of people who spilled a little to much info ,and they simply retire early ,or they come up with a dirty drug test casting doubt on anything they say.My company is still a Business ,the jobs we quote on may be 6 months down the line ,we have got to keep up with this and what our cost will be in 6 months not now , and $1.00 per barrel could mean no profit or working for free. I code and add all my info from my district, it is sent in along with that of operations by comparison from all the other districts based on market levels of production to the think tanks ,then we receive the true picture and why.If i make it sound silly it is because i see this and come home and hear the news ,shake my head ,get a headache and go to bed.
Thats about all i am going to say ,because anyone with a computer can find all that out . My first post on this was only trying to show you why this latest finger pointing isn't entirely accurate ,my next one was a what if it just may be this Take in the whole picture guys ,this is to big and complected to be as simple as the Media is trying to tell you it is ,and in that the are insulting your intelligence ,and thank you for listening.

 

[phalanx]

Food for thought , Iraq produces oil ,our military ensures that supply isn't interrupted ,not because we care about a bunch of backwards people to the tune of Billions spent by our sagging economy putting us at risk. All that oil goes to one place to keep them from calling in notes that would put us in the third world status over night. Then they would send their Army over there to make sure they continue getting a supply they need ,then the entire cat is out of the bag as to why many Americans are dieing . Yes we need to make sure the area stays secure ,it gives us a jump point ,this is true ,but the real perk is the oil. Prices go up for no reason ,Money from that is needed to pay notes and keep things from getting really bad ,is needed.
Americans yell and want to drill in Alaska ,but the guy we owe money to wants the oil there in payment not making that such a good thing being our state ,so let him drill in waters we are not allowed to drill in . Also that would let the story out ,and it is the one real asset we have left so keep the people believing it is the tree huggers doing it.
Things got real bad when the guy ,got very pissed when a little cruiser called the USS Lake Erie shot a missile at a reported rouge satellite they think we lied about ,demonstrating a Technology 20 years ahead of its time.
This satellite was moving ,not predictable ,skipping around with nothing to lock on to .
Thats another story ,but the guy had Intel making him very angry and he is still ranting about it ,and why we did it under his nose.
Now you know why the guy is acting like he is , and why this is coming to a head .

 

[belt fed frog]

we only did that because he launched an ASAT at one of his own satellites and we had to prove we still have the upper hand in that theater

 

[phalanx]

Yes that is true frog ,i am surprised you knew that it wasn't well publicized.
And i am happy you didn't fall for the story about the fuel in the Satellite thing.
But his was in stationary orbit ,transmitting a signal ,ours wasn't.
And it was exactly why we did it ,but we are supposed to be good little Friends to the guy.
It also told N.Korea what we could do to his crude Missiles he was bragging about having.
Or even to the guys missile he used to hit his own Satt.
And it was from a little ship darting in and out of some small islands ,cut off from the world ,so unless you had a visual you didn't know where it was until it launched.
Then you had less than 7 min .to react ,making it next to impossible to take out its missile.
Lots of those little boats running around out there.
Like JANES said ,this was truly ,007 ,stuff.
Hay frog ,it sort of sounds like the old cat and mouse thing we played with the USSR years ago ,but this guy doesn't have a sense of humor about it like they did.

 

[belt fed frog]

what about the bombing in syria , they have the very best russian anti air equipment that the russians can`t affford to field them selves , and 6 planes went in un detected dropped and left none the wiser ,it seems that iran has the very same equipment and the mullua`a are still crapping them selves over that one

 

[phalanx]

Frog ,when Reagan sent those F1 ,11s to bomb Libya i heard it on Short Wave 4 Hours before our press said anything.
Ahhh the 80s ,who was it said that after 2000 that people would remember the 80s ,like they remembered the 50s.
It looks more like that was the last decade that we were still America.

 

[Roc Rat]

Phalanx,, when I heard the story on the news and then looked up the info, I was hoping that they were correct,, I tell ya boys,, I, like a large percentage of the country are being stretched to the limit,, lack of work in the construction industry, high gas prices,,, (I don't get paid till I get to my machine) and sometimes, like monday morning I got to travel 5 hours to get to the old girl,,, on my dime.
I was just hoping there might be a light at the end of the tunnel,, not muzzle flashes.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

You know, I've been saying for years that we would be fighting that guy again, just like my dad did in Korea in the 1950s. And all that makes perfect sense to me on one level, with one glaring exception...

WHY are we still encouraging imports, and more importantly, keeping treaties and tax policies that encourage our production capacities to relocate overseas and import their products back to our shores, when- knowing what is coming- we SHOULD be doing our level best to rebuild OUR infrastructure, and OUR industrial base, training OUR youth on how to make things (and not just consume other peoples' products), and encouraging OUR businesses (both small and large) to create these new jobs, and new capabilities, that we will SO desperately need to be able to act in our own defense??? Even with everything made clear, it is simply undeclared economic war that already exists, and we are allowing ourselves to play their game. That makes no sense, from a position of self-preservation. If the threat is there to attack us and "come and take what they are owed" then perhaps we should take them at their word, and their threat, and get serious about getting prepared militarly and economically to fight back.

And somehow, I fail to see where electing one of their Fellow Travellers on the Long March- from EITHER party- is going to do anything to improve OUR situation...

 

[Bill S]

WHY are we still encouraging imports, and more importantly, keeping treaties and tax policies that encourage our production capacities to relocate overseas...etc., etc. ...

Because it isn't the popular majority that passes these laws, treaties and policies. Corporations buy the votes on these so they can fill the pockets of CEOs and execs. The moneyed few do not worry about the common people - they just want to make money now, fill their bank accounts, and damn the consequences. But what allows them to do this is that the general population shrugs, maybe grumbles a bit, and accepts it.

 

[phalanx]

Roc ,Rhonda worked on Palins campaign for Gov. ,the Wife still emails a friend of hers up there who works in Palins Cabinet.
She says that Palin comes in sometimes ,goes in her office and places her head in her hands a just shakes it back and forth ,like she just cant believe it.
She said once that Bush is either crazy ,or doesn't care about what is happening ,its like being on the decks of the Titanic.
I liked your post that started this ,It was good reading buddy and i didn't mean to sound like i was walking on it.
Its just that this entire thing is so much bigger than just high oil prices.
Its like our leaders stepped in dog poo and are trying to wipe it off on us.
Sometimes i feel the Dem's all supported Obama because they know what is going to happen ,and when it does a Communist Government will be the only way they could keep order in their eyes.
I can tell you things from the energy side ,i wish someone here could talk from the Banking side ,what you said was from the construction side and it is bad. Its sad to think that the Bush economy boom was all on borrowed money and not because America was strong.
Joker the one thing that exposes China is the energy sector , when i got that report about an off shore rig drilling in the gulf i freaked.
I couldn't find its name or who owned it , or how it got a permit to drill when i knew 12 American company's that were denied in the same field.
I saw where Nova Mud and Crescent Supply had been barging stuff out there so i called the Manager of Nova as we used to work together.
Guess who's Rig he said it was
So i used a pass word i had to access the Mapping i did ,and Santana is doing now in ANWR , back then it was just normal stuff to me and i thought it would be used if the range ever opened up.
You guys i know you all hate the oil field ,but me and Santana and our crews felt like we were doing something great for our country ,our family's use gas also ,and we thought our work was something special.
At that time i saw it wasn't for future production ,it was for value and price analysis In other words someone big paying for this only was concerned about the totals equaling price at a later date. Like having your house appraised , no where on this did i see Palins name ,only on the permits.
Meaning she didn't know this ,to her it was to know where to drill the most effectively when needed.
Then i saw these charts ,and i need to leave it at that ,I never told Santana when i emailed him ,he had little baby's ,i got him my old job and he was a kid loving his job.
I knew it wasn't the oil company's ,or the Arabs , and damn sure not the speculators , not this fast and sure not this big a scale.
All the speculators were doing is biting at the heels of the consumer when they saw something was going on here.
They are way to small a factor in this to have this type of effect , no shortage or embargo's ,no real global war going on ,Tank battery's so full they couldn't hold anymore.
So i looked into the China and India economic booms rumors ,India produces 70% of its own oil , China at least 40% the only thing that changed was when i saw how much Iraq was producing .WOW.
And how some Fields were not being coded as estimated barrels per day as is their norm ,but for how much they would be worth if say someone wanted to sell them.
Like you guys i am afraid also ,but i have been afraid for some time ,and after all of this people still think we are full of crap.

 

[phalanx]

Bill you are right man , and i read your every post because you seem to be sharp in the financial sector.
But Bill this is just way to big to be any one group of corporations ,or anything like that , I see them and their hand in this , this is on a scale that only a country could do .
Because some of the crap i see if it were any group of people ,they would already be arrested and paraded before the cameras for what they are doing to us ,and some other country's.
They would be hated worse than the Nazis ,and Bush and others would have stopped it now, if he cared like he says he does.
This could ruin his legacy ,his party ,his tax revenue ,people are really suffering over this.
If it were some individuals doing it ,think about it ,cooperate profit is one thing ,bringing the GNP of the United States to its knees is another ,Banks going under from load defaults ,401ks collapsing and that is coming next you watch . And the FDC will not be any good this time around.
The only real answer is ,and when this Tsunami hits and it is coming ,all the money these guys have will be worthless ,at least in this country or any other if they haven't rolled it over into something else.

 

[Bill S]

...this is just way to big to be any one group of corporations ,or anything like that , I see them and their hand in this , this is on a scale that only a country could do.

Yup. Their hands are in a lot of pockets and they hide behind a lot of masks. A little south of me in Arizona there's a big controversy about a copper mine going in. Copper mines are not new in Arizona by any means - but this one is drawing some resistence. It's going to be an open pit mine in the middle of a well-used scenic area and it will be wreaking havoc on the local water table (we do live in a desert) and destroying local ranching. Local government has been fighting this all the way, but is losing to federal pressures. The company that will be doing the mining is, on the surface, a Canadian corporation. But the Canadian corporation is controlled by Asian investors. And all the copper coming out of the mine is earmarked for China. If the mining company were American and the copper going to the American market, the public would probably be more supportive of the mine - but it's really upsetting that the profits and the resources will all go to China and we'll just be left with a polluted hole in the ground and an eyesore. And it's disturbing that while local government tries to stop it, the feds grease the wheels to make it happen - the feds are supporting China over their own citizens.

Our government is for sale to the highest bidder, and right now the highest bidder is Chinese.

 

[patriotpa]

That's why I do everything I can to not buy anything from the little fuckers. Contrary to what our govt tells us, China is NOT our ally. We are at war with them RIGHT NOW. An economic war.

 

[phalanx]

Well i don't know WTF is wrong with people , At least you guys are smart enough to see the writing on the wall.
I looked at my emails ,then cruised around other Forums ,people are still saying speculators . or its Big Oil ,Or the Saudis ,because i seen it on the web.
I now believe even if i down loaded my hard drive ,even into a link so they felt better ,they would still be doing this crap.
Are Americans really that stupid or Gullible ?
Its like three guys tossing a ball to each other and the public is this kid running around trying to get it.
Thanks for believing me guys , or for at least having an open mind.
Its just hard to see people who do not believe anything the Media or Gov. says about firearms ,soak up everything about oil prices.
Angry ,desperation ,or just looking for some explanation i don't know.
They still miss one point ,if it were speculators why hasn't this happen before ? and as much oil as we are talking about if it were them it would very much apparent ,and these Country's would hunting them down with shot guns.
Arabs ,these guys have got to be crapping in their pants , because out of all the world producers it is their ass in the cross hairs ,no one Else's. And is like that Prince said ,,,What good would it do us to see America fail ? Who the hell out there is going to protect us then ? without America we would be invaded within 24 hours.
Oil Company's ,they are thinking are people so stupid if i post a profit one year ,i spend that money the next year ?
And the things i need are getting more expensive also , and i am like a man in a boxing match with my hands tied because i am An American company trying to compete in the world with my own country holding me back.
Why in the hell would i want to cause my own Country to collapse ,where the hell am i going to go ? and who would even accept all this money i have then.
All of the above , either cant do this ,or they have no motive , Right now i can think of Two that have a Motive ,and the money to do this.
And we know who they are ,it is as simple as that ,in all of this i am really getting worried about my Country.