[alamosaddles]

This question is for any FFL who sells at gun shows.

I am awaiting the arrival of my FFL in the mail. I'd like to ask, when you go to a gun show. Do you take your bound book(s) with you to the show, and enter sales or aquisitions on the spot, or do you wait until you get back to your shop/store to make your entry?

Additionally, are you allowed/able to conduct a NICS check from any phone, such as a cell phone, or does it have to be a registered telephone number that you make the call from?

Lastly, if there is any FFL in Florida here, how does the payment of the NICS fee work? Does FDLE just send you a bill at the end of the month or do you pay the NICS fee on the spot at the start/end of the call?

Thanks, just trying to educate myself before the time comes.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

I'll give it a go

1)You should leave the bound book at your licensed premises but I have seen others take it with them.

2) Any phone is fine, cells are great.

3) If it is like Indiana they just send you a monthly bill.

 

[franks71vw]

Alamo About the book I am not sure about the phone alot of the dealers I see just use any phone they get their hands on. I have even seen them contact NICs with employees phones..

 

[Lone Ranger]

478.50, 478.91, 478.100

In a nutshell, no requirement to take the book - however, you still have the same required time frame to document acq & disp. Also the location of the event must be recorded on the 4473 and in the book.

If you read those sections and something doesn't sound right lemme know.

You should be able to conduct NICS from anywhere. If FL works like FBI and IL, you will have unique ID assigned which you will need to give before conducting the check.

 

[Griffinroydonald]

Book

I would never take the bound book to any show - What would you do if your book was misplaced or stolen ?

 

[ravenrob]

Another thing to watch out for.... If you buy a gun, it MUST remain in your possession for 24 hours. That means if someone sells you a gun and shortly thereafter, someone offers to buy it, watch out. It could be a setup. There have been several dealers in the Cleveland area that gut stung by the ATF doing this. They would set the dealer up.

This is also a warning to those of you that aren't dealers. If you buy a gun at a show and sell it at the same show, you are now dealing without a license. The alphabet boys don't play fair at times. Be careful (and yes, I have been a dealer and gunsmith for about 13 years now) I do know what I'm talking about here.

 

[JJ Custom]

I've never seen a requirement for an FFL to hold on to a firearm for 24 hours before they can sell it. Can anyone site a reg which states so? Simply log the firearm in and out of your log book when you return to your shop. Also be sure to fill in the field for place of transaction which isn't required when the firearm is sold at your place of business.

However; if you are a non-licensee I can see the 24 hour guide-line coming into effect. Otherwise you are dealing in firearms.

Leave the bound-book at the shop. Be sure to assign the number in the upper right hand corner accordingliny 11-17-200-XX for which transaction it is.

Note: I am not an FFL but have been working the tables with an FFL for over a year with a very reputable dealer. This is in the state of Ohio. YMMV.

If all else fails, ask the agent assigned to you.

James

 

[Luke]

Congradulations on getting your FFL! Way to go!

 

[Lone Ranger]

Another thing to watch out for.... If you buy a gun, it MUST remain in your possession for 24 hours. That means if someone sells you a gun and shortly thereafter, someone offers to buy it, watch out. It could be a setup. There have been several dealers in the Cleveland area that gut stung by the ATF doing this. They would set the dealer up.

This is also a warning to those of you that aren't dealers. If you buy a gun at a show and sell it at the same show, you are now dealing without a license. The alphabet boys don't play fair at times. Be careful (and yes, I have been a dealer and gunsmith for about 13 years now) I do know what I'm talking about here.

Sorry for the slow wittedness, but you lost me. If a dealer is operating at an in-state gunshow, he can acquire and dispose. I can understand the out of state dealers who are selling or one in and one out of state doing a deal to circumvent the rules, in which case holding the gun 24 hours wouldn't mean anything as the intent to circumvent regulations would still be there.

Could you provide some more details on the circumstances of dealers who got in hot water and if it was handled administratively or criminally? Also, if you could cite a regulation or statute on the 24 hour rule, would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, L-T: Did you receive a gun show checklist - sort of a "quick reference sheet" for what you can do at in and out of state shows?

Here's some educational cartoons: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm

 

[556guy]

The situation the Ravenbob talks about happened at the Cleveland/Medina show a few years back. The guy wasn't a dealer, had a table full of guns and a sign that said private collection. A dealer has no obligation to hold a gun.

 

[alamosaddles]

I would never take the bound book to any show - What would you do if your book was misplaced or stolen ?

Report it misplaced or stolen to ATF. That is what ATF would expect to be done.

I'm just seeking to find out what most dealers who do shows do. I mean, you are supposed to make the entry by when? If a dealer travels away from home and stays the night in a hotel, does that affect his ability to make the entry within a given period of time?

 

[alamosaddles]

Another thing to watch out for.... If you buy a gun, it MUST remain in your possession for 24 hours.

I know I am just now getting my FFL, but I have read and re-read and re-re-re-read the regs, and have never seen anything whatsover that makes mention of holding onto a firearm for 24 hours. The closest I have seen and can allude to, is that if you make a transfer from your inventory to your own personal use, it must remain in your personal stash for 1 year before you can sell it off "paperfree". Outside of that, I am/was under the impression that as a licensed dealer, you can buy and sell to your hearts content, and there are no time limits, quantity limits etc.

 

[alamosaddles]

BTW, L-T: Did you receive a gun show checklist - sort of a "quick reference sheet" for what you can do at in and out of state shows?

Here's some educational cartoons: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ltright.htm

Yea, she gave me the gunshow sheet.

I had looked at the entire ATF cartoon series..sort of goofy, but very well explains certain situations.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Alamo: Same time requirements apply; seven days for acquisition, close of next business day for disposition - unless you maintain commercial records, ie, a receipt which contains all required info, in which case you have seven days. see 478.125(g) for the extended time text.

 

[ravenrob]

I, I am/was under the impression that as a licensed dealer, you can buy and sell to your hearts content, and there are no time limits, quantity limits etc.

I went through my ergulations book againn last night. I do believe I was wrong after all. I think where I got confused was the whole non dealer buying a gun. They have to hold it for 24 hours.

 

[blaster1]

Is there actually anything IN PRINT that indicates an individual MUST hold a just acquired firearm for a minimum of 24 hours before it can be resold??. I certainly understand but I'd sure like to see something official about the 24 hour requirment. Sounds like an unlicensed individual with a table at a gunshow may buy a firearm on example Saturday 9AM and is free to resell the firearm as early as 901AM on Sunday. The individual may have found that the gun is not what he wanted or it just doesn't handle to his satisfaction, so then merely wants to get his money back out of it and not necessarily make a profit on the deal. Hey, this could happen.

 

[041x]

I know of a local dealer that was at a gun show and he purchased a gun and turned around and sold it right away. They ended up taking $100,000 + of guns from him even his personal guns. I don't know any more detail about it.

 

[alamosaddles]

I know of a local dealer that was at a gun show and he purchased a gun and turned around and sold it right away. They ended up taking $100,000 + of guns from him even his personal guns. I don't know any more detail about it.

If he was a licensed dealer, there is no regulation that calls for any length of time on holding a weapon before selling it off again. If they took his guns, this has nothing to do with it. As a private individual, I still cannot find any reference anywhere, whatsoever, calling for a time period wait. If they shut that dealer down, it was for something unrelated and unconnected with selling a gun he had just aquired, unless he purchased or sold it from or to a prohibited individual, he knew about it, circumvented the law etc..

 

[franks71vw]

Alamo the way i see it, Get your paperwork all done and then lets hit the gunshows :d will work for guns lol....

 

[Lone Ranger]

Alamo the way i see it, Get your paperwork all done and then lets hit the gunshows :d will work for guns lol....

VULTURE ALERT!