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Discussion Starter #1
Was Help!! Now she runs!!!!

Hey Guys,

We took our Belt Loader apart and cleaned her up and gave her a new set of needles. I've played with the needles and got them adjusted and really tighten them down. Then we start loading and got 20-30 rounds to load up then the round would go under the belt and hang on the shoulder of the round. This would lock up the loader, then after playing with it a couple of times it would load 10 or so rounds and then do it again. Checked the needles and they came loose again. We had to tweek the spring the puts the pressure on the needle holder to get them to float right, I did put one of the star wheels on backwards but the sheet that you guys posted this week helped fix that one.

Any ideas why the needles are coming loose?? I'll put some lock tight on them and let the sit over night and see how it goes. The spring that pushes in on the needles helped a lot and having the needles adjusted helped for a few rounds, any suggestions would be greatly appriciated. Thanks.


Thumper & Buttercup
 

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T&B,
You might try filing off a thread or two on the screw; it just may be hitting the end of the hole. That or put in a shim to lock them down better.
Hope this helps,
BA
 

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1918 belt loader problem....

T & B....Check if the washer under the screw fell off....if so,replace. And by all means use lock-tite if the screw keeps loosening up on the needles. Remember....the threads are quite old....probably 70 years or so....they might need the help......Len
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Guys,

The washers are there, lock tighted them last night, took everything apart again and oiled the heck out of everything where it needed it. Checked the needles again and noticed that the 4 needle points closest to the side where the bullet comes in were higher than the last two points. I went on and tried her, and she loaded up 10 rounds before goofing up, looked and the top needle group had shifted. We'll put her in the box and during a few chose words and went and mowed some. I am going to rotate the needles so the four that are closest are near the head of the round and tweek the other two so they are in line. It's not going to beat me, it might have me pissed but I'm not done yet!

Thumper & Buttercup.
 

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.....needles bent/?

Thumper&Buttercup said:
Thanks Guys,

The washers are there, lock tighted them last night, took everything apart again and oiled the heck out of everything where it needed it. Checked the needles again and noticed that the 4 needle points closest to the side where the bullet comes in were higher than the last two points. I went on and tried her, and she loaded up 10 rounds before goofing up, looked and the top needle group had shifted. We'll put her in the box and during a few chose words and went and mowed some. I am going to rotate the needles so the four that are closest are near the head of the round and tweek the other two so they are in line. It's not going to beat me, it might have me pissed but I'm not done yet!

Thumper & Buttercup.
....might take those needle sets out and check them for straightness. All were just lined up on a jig and soldered together. The solder may have worked loose (had one set come apart on me recently). File a groove in a piece of hardwood (metal will act as a heat sink),place needles side by side,make sure they are straight, heat 'em up w/soldering gun,use electrical solder (rosin-core) and solder at least 1" area about 1/2" from the tips. This will give the set a bit more stregnth. Any other idea's guys....?
 

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After finally getting mine working (thanks Len for letting me bounce a few ideas off you - got the brain working FINALLY!). I would also make sure youve degreased the hell out of the screws/needles/etc. There can be lots of gunk that gets in little spaces which may be throwing you off. Lube what needs lubed, reinstall everything and then check adjustment. Once its working resist the urge to keep going, take it apart and loctite the screws.

You can get the needles in what looks to be be a perfect adjustment only to find that theyre not once installed and under spring tension. Once you get them equally positioned and they just barely touch a business card as you slide it thru, you should be good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK,

I flipped the upper set and then they are straight with each other, if you pull a playing card between them it drags on both lightly. Now how thight do you make the spring that puts pressure on the needle holders? Do you guys have to play with the springs to get them to align up with the heads, had one hit the needle holder and lock the whole machine up. Inch by inch I'll get this one fixed. I did make a mistake and had put some grease on here, took it off and went with all oil and she is running better, now just to get her to feed properly. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!!!!

Thumper & Buttercup
 

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......correction

Mark Genovese said:
The needles are hard silver soldered, not soft soldered. SARCO has new in wrap.

Mark
Yes....Mark is correct. Silver solder was used but have repaired some with a good layer of rosin core solder. And SARCO's are $14.95 + shipping....not too bad.
 

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Ok, mine are not soldered. It runs great. Should I solder them?
I'm sure it would make adjusting a bit easier. When I got it, it was missing the crank but the machine had next to no wear marks on it. Also it was very clean no cosmoline. So I'm thinking the needles are original.
Comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Got her Fixed

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the suggestions, first this thing wants oil not grease!!!
Second my needles slightly rub the playing card as it is passed through the needles. Third, the Sarco 308 adapter was positioning the rounds wrong to go through the needle holder, the round was not hitting the sloped area. I reinstalled the 30-06 adaptor and placed a round in her and it was right where it supposed to be.

For the new guys who have never put in a set of needles, you remove the needle holder, change the needles if you are doing it then holding the unit so the bottom and top look parallel to each other adjust your needles where a playing card just scrapes them as it passes through. This is where a new guy like me gets lost, I'll post a picture but for the new guys it should help to know you are holding this unit in your hand making the adjustments.

My unit ran fine as long as I held the belt coming out so it did not put any weight on the unloaded side of the belt. Thanks again guys this thing rocks.




Thumper & Buttercup.
 

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...if it ain't broke....

Ouchman said:
Ok, mine are not soldered. It runs great. Should I solder them?
I'm sure it would make adjusting a bit easier. When I got it, it was missing the crank but the machine had next to no wear marks on it. Also it was very clean no cosmoline. So I'm thinking the needles are original.
Comments?
Ouchman....If you wipe the needles off with a rag you should see the soldered area. The new ones from SARCO were full of cosmoline. Oh....to complete the thought....if it ain't broke--don't fix it!!
 

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Ouchman said:
My needles aren't soldered.
As the solder came loose I scraped all the solder away. There are no washers holding the needles on my machine. If the needles were replaced with a smaller diameter than designed no amount of screw pressure is going to hold them in place. The four of them should stack up so as to stack slightly higher than the face of the arm. The tips of the screws should be even and adjusting them involves trial and error. Good luck.
 

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.....four needles???

Beltfire....What machine do you have? The needles are soldered together in a group of three (3) needles and placed in each arm. At least every M1918 I have seen has them this way. Do you have a hybred machine? Now I am curious....please advise....
 

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I checked and I am sure my needles were never soldered. Nor is there any trace of cosmoline on the entire machine. After the first usage it showed some signs of wear. I guess my question is was soldering the needles a "later thing"?I can see how it would make adjustment a whole lot easier.
 

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....soldered needle sets

Ouchman said:
I checked and I am sure my needles were never soldered. Nor is there any trace of cosmoline on the entire machine. After the first usage it showed some signs of wear. I guess my question is was soldering the needles a "later thing"?I can see how it would make adjustment a whole lot easier.
.....Good question....can't give a definite answer. But my thought is that you are right....soldering the three (3) individual needles together will keep the set in-line,make adjustment eaiser and keep your down-time to a minimum. If you can go to the old site and pull up the line drawing of the M1918, you will see that there is a washer under the clinch screw that secures the needle set. I encourage everyone that has a M1918 belt loader to get this line drawing for reference. I offer a manual...believe you have one...that shows these drawings in better detail. Also has the nomenclature of the parts,set-up instructions,trouble-shooting,clearing malfunctions and identifies each part with a part number. Lots of info for $8.00 ($7+$1 HIS)......LGS,2402 S.Michigan,So.Bend,IN-46614
 

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Thumper&Buttercup said:
OK,

I flipped the upper set and then they are straight with each other, if you pull a playing card between them it drags on both lightly. Now how thight do you make the spring that puts pressure on the needle holders? Do you guys have to play with the springs to get them to align up with the heads, had one hit the needle holder and lock the whole machine up. Inch by inch I'll get this one fixed. I did make a mistake and had put some grease on here, took it off and went with all oil and she is running better, now just to get her to feed properly. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!!!!

Thumper & Buttercup
Are we talking about a 1918 loader? Mine has one flat spring ( you keep saying springs ) that provides the tension on the needle arms. It is tricky to reinstall the whole assembly as the arm that the spring is fastened to must remain in a groove in the arm assembly and often pops out as the assembly is being reinstalled. Perhaps you are using the word spings and needles symomously. Hope this will be of help.
 

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Ouchman said:
Ok, mine are not soldered. It runs great. Should I solder them?
I'm sure it would make adjusting a bit easier. When I got it, it was missing the crank but the machine had next to no wear marks on it. Also it was very clean no cosmoline. So I'm thinking the needles are original.
Comments?
If it's not broke dont fix it.
 
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