[IMBLITZVT]

Guys,

I found a machine gun I want to buy and its from another guy in my state. How should I work this transfer?

Can I do a person to person? If so where are the ATF rules on this?

Can I do it through a FFL? If so do we have to do two tax stamps? One from him to the FFL and one from the FFL to me?

Can you help me with the ins and outs?

Thanks!

 

[NATCHEZJIM]

you do it person to person. fill out the transfer paper work,fingerprints,LEO sign off etc. Or go the trust/corp. route. send off the completed paperwork package to ATF. They will return the approved paperwork to the current owner. When he receives it, he can transfer the gun to you.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

If you do not want to do a person to person can we go to an FFL? If we do does it cost $200 from him to the FFL and $200 more from the FFL to me?

 

[Sniper258]

no, only 1 $200 transfer. But most clas 3 ffls will charge a fee to do the transfer. I really reccomend FTF and the backround checks will be covered federally

 

[IMBLITZVT]

The guy is only charging $50 for the help if we use him. Plus I may have an issue with the guy moving out of state so ... if the FFL has it... then we would be good... I think.

 

[jmann]

If the guy moves out of state then you will require a form 4 from him to your dealer and a form 4 from your dealer to you. Individials cannot do a form 4 from person to person unless both are in the same state. If the gun is on the [email protected] list and you are a [email protected] ffl holder you can transfer a gun on form 4 from individial to you from any state. Remember each form 4 is 200 dollars so it would be in your best interest to get this done before he moves out of state to avoid an extra 200 dollars.

 

[Poverty Ridge]

also

You cannot use just a plain FFL for this type of transfer, they must be a class 3 type to handle the transaction

If the guy moves out of state then you will require a form 4 from him to your dealer and a form 4 from your dealer to you. Individials cannot do a form 4 from person to person unless both are in the same state. If the gun is on the [email protected] list and you are a [email protected] ffl holder you can transfer a gun on form 4 from individial to you from any state. Remember each form 4 is 200 dollars so it would be in your best interest to get this done before he moves out of state to avoid an extra 200 dollars.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Well the idea is this... and I have to check with him to see when he is moving.

If we take it to an FFL while he is in MD and transfer it to an FFL and then he moves... we should be good right? Because then the FFL has it? Yes its a class III FFL. My only real question is the in state part of all of this. I know how it works with an out of state guy.

So the question is if it does to an FFL will it cost me $200 or $400?

 

[glockhead]

the "FFL"

you keep referring to has to be able to do class III transfers. the $200 is the cost for the "stamp" that goes on the license when it is transferred to you.

the ffl that handles class III transfers for me charges $100 which is his fee for getting involved.

hope this helps

 

[jmann]

Poverty Ridge,

I dont recall even mentioning a specific dealer type. I simply said "dealer" I gathered from his posts that he already had a dealer he used, although for an instate transfer of a nfa weapon you do not need a "dealer" of any type. The gun transfers on a form 4 from seller to buyer. If The gun is out of state it can be transferred in state to your dealer on a form 4 if coming from an individial or a form 3 if coming from another dealer. It then has to be tranferred from your dealer to you on a form 4. Every form 4 requires 200 bucks. It can also come instate to a c&r collector on a form four if the gun in question is on the C&R list. Again we are talking nfa firearms here.

Additionally there is no such thing as a "class 3" license. Any type 01 ffl can engage in the sale of all nfa weapons except for destructive devices.

There are 3 types of ffl.

1. Type 01-DEALER in firearms other than destructive devices.
2. Type 02-PAWNBROKER in firearms other than destructive devices.
3. Type 03-COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS.

In order to deal in nfa firearms a type 01 dealer must pay an annual special occupational tax, but there is not a different type of license.

Take a look here and get some info.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl/ffl_types.htm

 

[alamosaddles]

You cannot use just a plain FFL for this type of transfer, they must be a class 3 type to handle the transaction

Hm...question..

If the weapon being purchased is a C&R machine gun, can't a C&R ffl transfer it direct to another C&R ffl once the forms are approved and returned by atf, or does the C&R ffl also have to have paid the SOT?

 

[jmann]

Well the idea is this... and I have to check with him to see when he is moving.

If we take it to an FFL while he is in MD and transfer it to an FFL and then he moves... we should be good right? Because then the FFL has it? Yes its a class III FFL. My only real question is the in state part of all of this. I know how it works with an out of state guy.

So the question is if it does to an FFL will it cost me $200 or $400?

The ffl must be a S.O.T. to deal in nfa devices. That is a special occupational tax paid annually by a ffl to deal in nfa weapons.

If the gun is in state it can be transferred to you from the seller on a form 4 for 200 dollars.

If the gun is out of state it must be transferred to your ffl sot on a form 4 for 200 dollars and then from him to you on another form four for another 200 dollars.
Only sot dealers can transfer items tax free on a form 3 and that is from dealer to dealer.

In other words if the gun moves out of state it will cost 2 stamps to get the gun to you which is 400 dollars, although most sellers will pay for the first stamp in that situation.

 

[jmann]

Hm...question..

If the weapon being purchased is a C&R machine gun, can't a C&R ffl transfer it direct to another C&R ffl once the forms are approved and returned by atf, or does the C&R ffl also have to have paid the SOT?

No sot required for c&r machine gun purchaces by a c&r collector. It goes on a form 4 from individual, dealer, or collector, directly to the collector on a single stamp from state to state.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

You guys are killing me. But I know you are only trying to help... let me spell it out a little better.

I understand the part about the dealer and the types of FFLs... Thats not the issue.

If an IN STATE Machine gun owner wants to Transfer a machine gun to me BUT through an FFL does it require two Tax stamps?

So the gun goes from him to the FFL when I pay him. The FFL sends in my paper work and holds the gun. When it all comes back I can pick up the gun from the FFL.

Would this require two tax stamps?

Does anyone have a link to the BATF explaining the transfer details?

 

[brassmagnet]

My guess would be one stamp from your friend to the dealer/ffl and one stamp when it transfers back to you.....just a guess, but that's the way I understand this stuff.....

 

[jmann]

Why you would do that I dont know, but if gun is transferred to your dealer from your friend it goes on a form 4 and 200 dollars. The gun cannot change posession until the form 4 is returned from the atf. Not even dealers can posess a mg without the proper forms so your friend will have to retain the gun until he recieves back the approved form four. It does not matter if it is going to you, your dealer, or knights armament. It cannot go there until the SELLER recieves the approved form 4 back from ATF.

 

[Uncle Tom]

YES! It is two form 4 transfers at $200. ea. One from owner to dealer and one from dealer to you.

Been there done that.

Now you could do this...you fill out forms for xfr from owner to you and sumit them, then if owner decides to move, he could get sturdy locking container to hold gun and leave it in state with someone trustworthy.

Then when paperwork comes through he can send you the key and approved form 4, then you pick up gun. Deal Done.

Uncle Tom

 

[IMBLITZVT]

OK that answered it perfectly.

So the only way for the gun to transfer, for a single tax stamp, would be from him to me. All the FFL can do is help us with the paperwork.

Now say he lives in the state now, we meet and send off the paper work to the ATF. Then he moves out of state while we are waiting for the paperwork to come back???

 

[Uncle Tom]

He will have his mail forwarded so he can send key and form 4 to you.

 

[jmann]

Now you are getting into a gray area. At this point transferrs seem to be taking 6 weeks to two months. If he will be gone before then then I would call the nfa branch in martinsburg wv and ask them. I have had many dealings with them on transfers, imports, ect and they are always extremly helpful and friendly. They can advise you on the best and legal way to handle that.