[MeanGreen]

Tried my hand yesterday at Homebrew Parkerizing. Had mixed results.

Followed several step-by-step walkthroughs for zinc-phosphate parkerizing. I had on hand a gallon of Kleen Strip Prep-and-Etch, a bottle of Naval Jelly, a bunch of pennies, some 0000 steel wool, a huge stainless fish poacher, a BBQ grill, a candy thermometer, and an ORF sideplate.

Started out just like the walkthroughs said, I ground off the copper cladding on four pennies, and went to dissolve them in a quart of Prep&Etch. Man, I thought they would dissolve in about 20 or 30 minutes, but it took several hours. At this point, I was thinking that the P&E didn't have a high enough content of phosphoric acid, so I added a couple big globs of naval jelly to the mix to try to speed things up. (Mistake). Well, that didn't really speed things up, so I started to theorize that maybe the P&E solution was becoming "saturated" with zinc. So I dump another quart of P&E into the mix.

Another hour or two goes by, and those pennies are STILL dissolving. At this point I'm scratching my head. I had assumed that they should be dissolved by now. So more P&E at this point gets added, I chop up the pennies with tin snips (to get more surface area exposed to the acid) and I light up the BBQ grill thinking that heat will speed the process. Let it cook a couple more hours, and the pennies are still not dissolved completely. In goes the last quart of prep&etch (one gallon total in there now).

I come back two hours later, and the pennies are now dissolved to my liking. I add about a gallon of water to the mix, bring it up to 190*, and toss in half a degreased biscuit of steel wool. That sucker was dissolved in about 5 minutes. (This should have been my first clue).

So out comes the test piece. A nicely sandblasted piece of square tubing. Into the bath, it it starts bubbling like CRAZY! (Again, another warning sign). After about 5 minutes of this, my curiosity gets the better of me, and I fish it out. WOW! A nicely light gray parked piece of tubing! That's awesome! Parking was a little thin, but I chalked it up to the short time in the bath before I fished it out.

"Cool!" I'm thinking, so into the bath goes the properly prepped sideplate. You talk about FIZZING! It looked like I tossed an entire bottle of alka-seltzer in there. Oh well, must be normal. There was so much fizzing, that the park solution actually got a "head" on it, like a glass of beer. About 5 minutes later, it actually begins boiling over.

I did my best to control the boilover, and seeing as how this was the piece I wanted to come out "nice", I left it in a little longer than my test piece so that it would have a good heavy parkerized coating. Heck, the tutorials said it would stop fizzing when it was done, right? Well it fizzed right along, and after about 20 to 25 minutes, I fished out the sideplate.

Horror of horrors! My beautiful ORF sideplate with personally-done-hand-engraving was ETCHED LIKE A MOFO! Oh, it parkerized alright. The finish is fine, but the metal is so etched that it is now about 3 or 4 times rougher in appearance than hot-rolled steel. It's so rough in fact, that wiping it off afterward with an old rag will rip little fibers off the rag, and leaves little "fuzzies" all over the plate. And it actually thinned the plate significantly, too. Where the RSP inserted into the bottom plate, before it was quite snug, and now is almost sloppy. The profile near the feedway, where it is supposed to be filed to fit, is now etched away so it sits BELOW the feedway (it did not during initial mockups).

Pics WILL be coming.

So.... I just ordered a new ORF plate (backordered! Nuts! ) and I'm re-mixing a new batch of witches' parkerizing brew. This time using ONLY ONE quart of prep and etch, and I've got the pennies in there dissolving right now. They've got at least three weeks before my new RSP shows up, so that should be plenty of time.

 

[franks71vw]

Never had a problem with Pirates brew worked every single time you can use maganese or zine solution. follow his step forget the pennies and steel wool and it will come out lookng great. Make sure you have a seperate dip tank preheated with a degreaser to run the parts in it. Also are you doing a dummy plate or something why are you parking a plate and not the receiver box? Build your box makes sure it works then degrease, blast and park. Save your pennies yor gonna need it for ammo...

 

[panaceabeachbum]

The concentrate from brownells makes 8 gallons for $40 = $5 per gallon, no guesswork

 

[kkkriverrats]

Parking

I used Radocy parking solution no pennies no steel wool just water and solution. They say tap water I use distilled. All of the soulitions are corrosive and will etch whatever they come in contact with eventually it will eat up anything with an iron content. Thats why you have to be carefull when doing barrels so you don't etch the bore and chamber. Most of the small stuff I've done has been parked in 20 min at 170 F. I use a 2 burner electric hot plate and the one tank is 4X4X36 the other is about 4X12X22.

 

[alamosaddles]

Tried my hand yesterday at Homebrew Parkerizing. Had mixed results.


Horror of horrors! My beautiful ORF sideplate with personally-done-hand-engraving was ETCHED LIKE A MOFO! Oh, it parkerized alright. The finish is fine, but the metal is so etched that it is now about 3 or 4 times rougher in appearance than hot-rolled steel. It's so rough in fact, that wiping it off afterward with an old rag will rip little fibers off the rag, and leaves little "fuzzies" all over the plate. And it actually thinned the plate significantly, too. Where the RSP inserted into the bottom plate, before it was quite snug, and now is almost sloppy. The profile near the feedway, where it is supposed to be filed to fit, is now etched away so it sits BELOW the feedway (it did not during initial mockups).

Pics WILL be coming.

So.... I just ordered a new ORF plate (backordered! Nuts! ) and I'm re-mixing a new batch of witches' parkerizing brew. This time using ONLY ONE quart of prep and etch, and I've got the pennies in there dissolving right now. They've got at least three weeks before my new RSP shows up, so that should be plenty of time.

So, how much are you selling that new dummy right side plate for

 

[MeanGreen]

why are you parking a plate and not the receiver box?

Well, for one thing, I keep reading about how some 1919s "bleed rust" from the joints between the RSP and the trunnion, bottom plate, etc., where the parerizing doesn't take. (For one thing, you can't sandblast those areas, so the park may not take as well there). This way, I'd have a one "quickie" parkerizing coat for sure on all those cracks and crevices, and then I could go back and then sandblast all the exposed areas of the box and re-park after assembly to get an even overall finish.

Secondly, the reason I did the RSP alone was just for this reason. This is my first attempt at parking, and I knew the possibility was very real I'd f- something up. I'd much rather it be just an RSP than the whole box. Boy, am I glad I did it this way instead of tossing the whole thing in and wrecking everything.

 

[TARGSHOOT]

guys,
stop trying to make park solution with frogs hair and eye of nute !! just buy the alagany arsenal or brownells park solution and be done with it, its cheaper than a new rsp!
ive been parkerizing for 20+ years and have used almost all brands, dutchmans,brownells,amerilean,alagany etc...and the only difference is weather its zinc or manganease....... just my .02 fellas

 

[franks71vw]

not sure but non of my parks have never bleed rust if your metals are still warm and you drench them with oil when they cool off that oil will be in their not really sure how your doing it. All I can say is that I am very cautious like you and think I will screw soemthing up so I never venture out but after meeting Pirate trust me follow his method and it will work. Again have a spare tank for degreasing once everything has been degreased use clean water for the rinse tank and keep it warm. If you dont "preheat" what you are going to park it will drop the temperature of the solution tank and then you can screw up again. If you were closer I am sure Pirate or I would be happy to show you. As for the prepark build eh it aint worth it in my book cause not you have to build the gun and you will have to oil the plate then after your build your gonna after degrease with a hot soapy solution and then blast away the park you did? Not really sure I'd want to go through parking the same gun twice? Not sure its really worth it agian. Rinse and repeat

 

[acmech]

Tried my hand yesterday at Homebrew Parkerizing. Had mixed results.

Followed several step-by-step walkthroughs for zinc-phosphate parkerizing. I had on hand a gallon of Kleen Strip Prep-and-Etch, a bottle of Naval Jelly, a bunch of pennies, some 0000 steel wool, a huge stainless fish poacher, a BBQ grill, a candy thermometer, and an ORF sideplate.

Started out just like the walkthroughs said, I ground off the copper cladding on four pennies, and went to dissolve them in a quart of Prep&Etch. Man, I thought they would dissolve in about 20 or 30 minutes, but it took several hours. At this point, I was thinking that the P&E didn't have a high enough content of phosphoric acid, so I added a couple big globs of naval jelly to the mix to try to speed things up. (Mistake). Well, that didn't really speed things up, so I started to theorize that maybe the P&E solution was becoming "saturated" with zinc. So I dump another quart of P&E into the mix.

Another hour or two goes by, and those pennies are STILL dissolving. At this point I'm scratching my head. I had assumed that they should be dissolved by now. So more P&E at this point gets added, I chop up the pennies with tin snips (to get more surface area exposed to the acid) and I light up the BBQ grill thinking that heat will speed the process. Let it cook a couple more hours, and the pennies are still not dissolved completely. In goes the last quart of prep&etch (one gallon total in there now).

I come back two hours later, and the pennies are now dissolved to my liking. I add about a gallon of water to the mix, bring it up to 190*, and toss in half a degreased biscuit of steel wool. That sucker was dissolved in about 5 minutes. (This should have been my first clue).

So out comes the test piece. A nicely sandblasted piece of square tubing. Into the bath, it it starts bubbling like CRAZY! (Again, another warning sign). After about 5 minutes of this, my curiosity gets the better of me, and I fish it out. WOW! A nicely light gray parked piece of tubing! That's awesome! Parking was a little thin, but I chalked it up to the short time in the bath before I fished it out.

"Cool!" I'm thinking, so into the bath goes the properly prepped sideplate. You talk about FIZZING! It looked like I tossed an entire bottle of alka-seltzer in there. Oh well, must be normal. There was so much fizzing, that the park solution actually got a "head" on it, like a glass of beer. About 5 minutes later, it actually begins boiling over.

I did my best to control the boilover, and seeing as how this was the piece I wanted to come out "nice", I left it in a little longer than my test piece so that it would have a good heavy parkerized coating. Heck, the tutorials said it would stop fizzing when it was done, right? Well it fizzed right along, and after about 20 to 25 minutes, I fished out the sideplate.

Horror of horrors! My beautiful ORF sideplate with personally-done-hand-engraving was ETCHED LIKE A MOFO! Oh, it parkerized alright. The finish is fine, but the metal is so etched that it is now about 3 or 4 times rougher in appearance than hot-rolled steel. It's so rough in fact, that wiping it off afterward with an old rag will rip little fibers off the rag, and leaves little "fuzzies" all over the plate. And it actually thinned the plate significantly, too. Where the RSP inserted into the bottom plate, before it was quite snug, and now is almost sloppy. The profile near the feedway, where it is supposed to be filed to fit, is now etched away so it sits BELOW the feedway (it did not during initial mockups).

Pics WILL be coming.

So.... I just ordered a new ORF plate (backordered! Nuts! ) and I'm re-mixing a new batch of witches' parkerizing brew. This time using ONLY ONE quart of prep and etch, and I've got the pennies in there dissolving right now. They've got at least three weeks before my new RSP shows up, so that should be plenty of time.

Wow that sucks, when I use the same brew, I use about 7-8 pennies with the zinc ground off and about 18 oz. of prep and etch, then add it to 6 gallons of water after the pennies disolved, thats SIX gallons. Then one whole acetone washed biscuit of steel wool and let it dissolve. While the water is slowly heating up, I place the container of pennies and PE into the water to let it warm a little. Only problem I've ever had was the new right plate didn't take park well because I didn't clean it well enough. I've used that recipe for 4 1919 and all parked fine.

 

[MeanGreen]

guys,
just buy the alagany arsenal or brownells park solution and be done with it, its cheaper than a new rsp!

Okay, how much solution do I need to make a batch large enough to do an average 1919? I have a fish poacher for a park tank. The brownells website lists a gallon and a pint size container, the only problem is that it doesn't tell how much solution that gallon or pint will dilute to when mixed properly with water. Since I want to do zinc phosphate, It's either the mega-huge $80 gallon, or the teeny-weeny $14 pint. I don't want to be caught short and have to wait weeks to finish my build (moot at this point) but I also don't want to blow $80 on a gallon only to find out it will fill a swimming pool with park solution (price is also moot at this point). Basically, help me out here. How much of the concentrate do I have to buy? One pint? Two? Gallon? Gallons? What's the mix ratio, so I can figure it out myself, because it sure doesn't list it on the brownells website.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1106&title=ZINC%20PHOSPHATE%20PARKERIZING

not sure but non of my parks have never bleed rust if your metals are still warm and you drench them with oil when they cool off that oil will be in their not really sure how your doing it. All I can say is that I am very cautious like you and think I will screw soemthing up so I never venture out but after meeting Pirate trust me follow his method and it will work. Again have a spare tank for degreasing once everything has been degreased use clean water for the rinse tank and keep it warm. If you dont "preheat" what you are going to park it will drop the temperature of the solution tank and then you can screw up again. If you were closer I am sure Pirate or I would be happy to show you. As for the prepark build eh it aint worth it in my book cause not you have to build the gun and you will have to oil the plate then after your build your gonna after degrease with a hot soapy solution and then blast away the park you did? Not really sure I'd want to go through parking the same gun twice? Not sure its really worth it agian. Rinse and repeat

Okay, none of yours have bled rust. That's awesome, you obviously know what you're doing. I do not, and that's what I'm saying here. I wanted so much to not f- up, that I f-ed up. "Don't be like me".

As for "Pirate's Home Brew", I searched and searched, and didn't find the original recipe. Perhaps lost when the board went down? Anyway, I did find a bunch of references to it, most of them something like "Oh it's so easy, just do this and this and this". For the most part, I did do "that and that and that". But in the end, I ended up with a bit too much of "that", and not enough RSP.

It's kinda like home building an AK. To me, it's easy. I tell my buddies "it's easy, you'd have to be a moron to screw it up." Well guess what? My buddies, who are normally mechanically inclined with awesome metal fabrication skills (one of whom has completely fabricated a desert race truck), somehow turned into apes when building AK's. "Dude, you know how to work with metal, how can you possibly be screwing this up? You're just making a sheetmetal BOX!" I swear, if I told him he was working on a race truck, he would have made the most beautiful AK reciever you'd ever seen. Somehow, the thought that he was gunsmithing caused his brain to shift gears and make him into a primate. I guess to put it another way, what seems easy to one can somehow confound another, no matter how skilled in similar practices that person is.

In my case, the building of the 1919 up to this point had been child's play, but the chemical process of parkerizing turned me (temporarily I hope) into a moron.

 

[MeanGreen]

guys,
just buy the alagany arsenal or brownells park solution and be done with it, its cheaper than a new rsp!

This is what I'm going to do now. BUT...

The whole reason I did the home brew to begin with is this: how much brownells solution do I need to to buy to make a batch large enough to do an average 1919? I have a fish poacher for a park tank. The brownells website lists a gallon and a pint size container, the only problem is that it doesn't tell how much solution that gallon or pint will dilute to when mixed properly with water. Since I want to do zinc phosphate, It's either the mega-huge $80 gallon, or the teeny-weeny $14 pint. I don't want to be caught short and have to wait weeks to finish my build (moot at this point) but I also don't want to blow $80 on a gallon only to find out it will fill a swimming pool with park solution (price is also moot at this point). Basically, help me out here. How much of the concentrate do I have to buy? One pint? Two? Gallon? Gallons? What's the mix ratio, so I can figure it out myself, because it sure doesn't list it on the brownells website.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1106&title=ZINC%20PHOSPHATE%20PARKERIZING

not sure but non of my parks have never bleed rust if your metals are still warm and you drench them with oil when they cool off that oil will be in their not really sure how your doing it. All I can say is that I am very cautious like you and think I will screw soemthing up so I never venture out but after meeting Pirate trust me follow his method and it will work. Again have a spare tank for degreasing once everything has been degreased use clean water for the rinse tank and keep it warm. If you dont "preheat" what you are going to park it will drop the temperature of the solution tank and then you can screw up again. If you were closer I am sure Pirate or I would be happy to show you. As for the prepark build eh it aint worth it in my book cause not you have to build the gun and you will have to oil the plate then after your build your gonna after degrease with a hot soapy solution and then blast away the park you did? Not really sure I'd want to go through parking the same gun twice? Not sure its really worth it agian. Rinse and repeat

Okay, none of yours have bled rust. That's awesome, you obviously know what you're doing. I do not, and that's what I'm saying here. I wanted so much to not f- up, that I f-ed up. I got the degreasing, the sandblasting, all that jazz. I did that. That's not what screwed me. It was my not knowing how long it takes for stuff to happen, and thus thinking that I had a weak batch, causing me to up the acid content WAY above what it is supposed to be. I had the correct ingredients, I just used the wrong proportions. My inexperience led me to percieve a problem that didn't exist. My corrective measure for the "problem" ended up being more of a problem than the original percieved problem. Sounds like the Federal Government -create a problem where there is none, implement "fix" that makes everything worse than before.

As for "Pirate's Home Brew", I searched and searched, and didn't find the original recipe. Perhaps lost when the board went down? Anyway, I did find a bunch of references to it, most of them something like "Oh it's so easy, just do this and this and this". For the most part, I did do "that and that and that". But in the end, I ended up with a bit too much of "that", and not enough RSP.

This whole parking fiasco is kinda like home building an AK. To me, that's easy. I tell my buddies "it's easy, you'd have to be a moron to screw it up." Well guess what? My buddies, who are normally mechanically inclined with awesome metal fabrication skills (one of whom has completely fabricated a desert race truck), somehow turned into apes when building AK's. "Dude, you know how to work with metal, how can you possibly be screwing this up? You're just making a sheetmetal BOX!" I swear, if I told him he was working on a race truck, he would have made the most beautiful AK reciever you'd ever seen. Somehow, the thought that he was gunsmithing caused his brain to shift gears and make him into a primate. I guess to put it another way, even doing something that we SHOULD be good at, every once in a while we have a "brain fart" and manage to screw up even a mundane task.

In my case, the building of the 1919 up to this point had been child's play, but the chemical process of parkerizing turned me (temporarily I hope) into a moron, and my RSP into a fancy paperweight (permanantly I'm afraid).



Inquiries about the RSP- sorry, it's not going to be sold/traded/given away. It's already engraved with my name as the manufacturer, and I just don't want that kind of liability. Sorry.

 

[TARGSHOOT]

mean green,
here is the mixing info direct from the brownells manuel for zinc;
measure 124 oz of water
4 oz ( by volume) of zinc park solution per above
do not add the solution until the water is at minimum 120 F
now knowing that, you can figure how many gallons your tank is X 4oz per gallon. now with that said if you order from brownells they will send you if you ask a copy of the directions for all zinc and maganease parking, step by step. its a no brainer, unless your like me and have no brain
now there are some very good tid bits that the manuel covers, over the years i have modified it a bit for myself and i now have the desired finish i wish to produce. my tanks are electric and built to my specs. they are unique. just ask anybody who has been to my shop and seen them. i have a 4 gallon 6 inch diameter tank that does just about everything. my second tank is 15 gallons 10 inch diameter and i can do a .50 or a complete 1919 with shroud, and large parts. good luck, if you need any other help pm or email me .

 

[franks71vw]

http://www.projectguns.com/parkerizing.html

Here is pirate site. if your only going to park one gun its gonna suck the royal one to spend that amount of money on chemicals but either way like you I was the same way thinking i am going to F it up. But trust me just dilute the chemicals in a stainless pan and use distilled water. follow whats up on the link and gurannteed rrreeesullltss if you want skip the black oxide step

 

[MeanGreen]

Targshoot, thanks for the info. I'll be able to figure out how much to order now. Thanks!

Franks71vw, thanks for the link. That is indeed one of the websites I was using as a step-by-step, but it wasn't the main one I was using as he seemed to be working to get a very dark, almost black park finish, while I am aiming for the lighter gray look. I'll use his info for prep and stuff like that this next time though.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

Just come to my build party and you can park it for free

 

[soulreaper]

guys,
stop trying to make park solution with frogs hair and eye of nute !! just buy the alagany arsenal or brownells park solution and be done with it, its cheaper than a new rsp!
ive been parkerizing for 20+ years and have used almost all brands, dutchmans,brownells,amerilean,alagany etc...and the only difference is weather its zinc or manganease....... just my .02 fellas

zink or mag what do you prefer? i just ordered the brownels soulution which is it

 

[TARGSHOOT]

zinc is the light grey and is easier to turn green
manganease is the darker charcol grey almost black

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

as far as i know, the "bleed rust" thing came from the way ORF parks there guns

the reason the ORF guns "bleed rust" between the joints is only because the parkerizing solution hasnt been properly neutralized with water after it is pulled out of the park solution tank.

pull your gun out of the park tank, and dunk it in the rinse tank full of hot water - let it sit there for a few minutes and it will completely neutralize the park solution left on the gun inside the cracks and crevices - then dunk it in your vat of wd40 and pull it out and dry it off - then replace the wd40 with good gun oil

you will never have a problem of rust between the joints

 

[MeanGreen]

as far as i know, the "bleed rust" thing came from the way ORF parks there guns

the reason the ORF guns "bleed rust" between the joints is only because the parkerizing solution hasnt been properly neutralized with water after it is pulled out of the park solution tank.

pull your gun out of the park tank, and dunk it in the rinse tank full of hot water - let it sit there for a few minutes and it will completely neutralize the park solution left on the gun inside the cracks and crevices - then dunk it in your vat of wd40 and pull it out and dry it off - then replace the wd40 with good gun oil

you will never have a problem of rust between the joints

10-4, thanks for the insight!

 

[MSG]

....As for "Pirate's Home Brew", I searched and searched, and didn't find the original recipe. Perhaps lost when the board went down? Anyway, I did find a bunch of references to it, most of them something like "Oh it's so easy, just do this and this and this". For the most part, I did do "that and that and that". But in the end, I ended up with a bit too much of "that", and not enough RSP....

I've always heard it referred to as "Dutch’s Ospho Parking solution and witches brew." I posted this variation some time ago.

Green Park.

First – this is not mine. It is a compilation of discussions on three or four threads I read over the last several years. I’ve never tried to make any money off this because it is simply information given freely by several others. Will this work for you? I don’t know. It does work for me. One reason I am posting this is because I would like several other people to verify my results. There may or may not be something else that is influencing my results. Give this a try so we can all find out.

Here goes.

1. Degrease: Mineral spirits, White gas, boil in Simple Green or dish soap, sonic cleaner, whatever. I knocked off the heavy stuff with white gas and then boiled in dish soap and then clear water.
2. Sand blast: A few people use glass beads, I use sand media.
3. Pre-heat: Kitchen oven, approx. 180 F. I Park in a large steam table pan on a Coleman stove, and this helps me maintain temperature. Those of you with proper equipment can probably omit this step. If the heat reveals oil stains, I’ll spray these with brake cleaner.
4. Acid bath: Muriatic acid. It’s less than $6.00 a gallon at Lowe’s.
5. Rinse: I use hot, clear water. The heated water aids in controlling the Park tank temp.
6. Prepare Park solution: I use Dutch’s Ospho Parking solution and witches brew. He says one 32 oz bottle makes about four gallons (1 in 16). I’m using a stronger solution, but probably don’t need to. Dissolve three or four new (zinc) pennies (tribute to Abe) in approx. six ounces of Ospho before diluting with water. An equivalent amount of zinc from other sources (I’ve used electrical fittings) can be used. Add remaining Ospho to make desired amount of solution, heat to 190 F. Dissolve ½ TBS clean (remove oil), fine steel wool (essence of Brillo) in warm solution.
7. Park: Hang parts in 190 F solution for 12 to 15 minutes. Mine never stops bubbling.
8. Rinse: In hot water to stop reaction.
9. Dry: I start with a hair drier to remove all water droplets, and then hang in a low temp (170 F) oven.
10. Treat: I slather the parts with TC Bore Butter by hand. Just let the pores suck it up. I have also gotten similar results with Bag Balm, but have not tested this as much. It’s green.

Discussion:

I read numerous times that the green tint was caused by old Cosmoline and time. I’ve also read the weapons were already green during WWII. The Lanolin (wool oil) in old Cosmoline was also credited. Another member posted that old or dirty park solution was the cause. I don’t know what actually does it, but I tried several angles.

By Parking several test pieces first, and limiting quality control measures, I have the dirty Park solution thing down. Reusing the solution makes sure it’s dirty too.

Though I tried treating with several compounds (Old Cosmo, CLP, new motor oil, used motor oil, QuickSilver, grease, Bag Balm, Bore Butter, WD-40, etc), only the Bore Butter and Bag Balm produced a green finish. The Bag Balm does contain lanolin; I have no idea what’s in TC Bore Butter (though it is an all natural, food grade material).

The commercial Parking solutions may or may not work. Ospho also contains “wetting agents” and “extenders,” including chromium compounds, that may also affect the color.

Is anyone else getting green?