[HaveBlue83]

OK.....I have in My possesion (for the time being) am M1919A4 machine gun. This is what the sideplate says (from what i could read):

NO 483144 US INSP FJA
BROWNING MACHINE GUN
U.S. CAL .30 M1919A4
MFG BY BUFFALO ARMS CORP
BUFFALO, NEW YORK, USA



NOW the fun part.....this was found in a junk pile with an MG-42 in Baghdad, Iraq about 4 months ago (i am in the Army, 45B)......LOL. It is currently rusted SOLID. no moving pieces. Its DEF not going to ever cycle again. It pretty much demilled itself.


BRACE YOURSELF.........










so can anyone tell me what year it was made? we are gonna have to cut it AND the MG-42 up.....

 

[moped1967]

wow thats pretty cool. Not sure on when it was made. I have a few quick questions though if I may. First, how common is it to find stuff like these in junk yards here? ( I'm in theater as well, 88M) second, seen any 1917 tripods around? Been looking for one and think Ive found a loop hole to get one back home legally. Still looking into that though.

 

[HaveBlue83]

this is a rare find...i have seen a PPsH-41 from 1944 that was in great condition.

i dont have any tripods like that. If we have to cut them up i am gonna cut out the ser # area and keep that......

the MG-42 is a 4-digit german one......crazy....

 

[ScottD]

45B huh? Me too. (One of 4 MOS's) I keep trying to convince my forward unit to send stuff home to me, but nobody listens. I keep telling them to just weld the bbls closed, but everybody knows what Im up too.

PS- How bad is the top cover on that 42? I want a German marked cover for my gun. (Just send it along with the whole gun, nobody will mind, Im sure.................)

 

[HaveBlue83]

th MG is better than the 1919......i got the cover opened, the feed pawls moving...some of the springs still had SOME tension...the tray is fine, i disassembled it....its just got a coat of rust...finish is still kinda there.

I am not sure about metal fatigue though...lol....


oh, we have a BUNCH of stuff i want back too!!!

 

[CLP]

Thanks for posting that. Cool picture. Looks like an A5

 

[mt-ac]

More Pictures Please

Very cool find! Can you post more pictures?

Most importantly a BIG THANK YOU to you and all those that put themselves at risk so we can be safe at home.

Thank you.
Tom mt-ac

 

[sweetwine]

Buffalo 1919

About all we can say is it's a WWII issue. You ought to try to save the lettering and serial number when you cut it up. Be nice for the engravers to be able to reproduce.
And a BIG THANK YOU for serving our country.
Please be safe and if you guys need anything let us know.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

Looks like I could fix it. Just needs some Kroil to penetrate it and clean out all that rust, and an oil bath to get it working again.

What's the latest on the demil specs? What are your orders?

 

[montytim]

Use it!

I agree with Aaron on the 1919, rust does not affect steel unless there is a substantial loss in cross-section, which is not apparent in the photos.
You could clean that one up and use it on some bad guys (if you could lay your hands on some .30-06)!

Thanks for what you're doing!

 

[HaveBlue83]

well, it's practically impossible nowadays to get anything "captured" back.....

maybe for museum purpose...but it's such a PITA....


i have seen underfolder AK's, Type-56, Milled AK-47, PK, Yugo M-70's, PPsh, those 2 relics, all kinds of ****.......



P.S. i had a buddy that was gonna send me some kroil, but i never got it........

the MG-42....the bolt rollers are locked so its not going to break easily....i have been TRYING...i have more picts but a SLOW connection.....gimme some time and i will get more up!

I NEED SOME KROIL OR P.B. BLASTER!!!!!!!

i would love to have something to really get stuff moving again, but its BAD.

I will try and hold off on them cutting them up for as long as i can......I want to cycle that MG-42 just ONCE.........lol....

 

[AaronHorrocks]

I've been restoring 50+ year old parts for a long time, and from what I can see in that photo is just surface rust that would clean up. Maybe the gun would be rough from the outside, and might have a few quirks, but it's no different from taking an old rusty stuck engine and fixin' 'er up.

I'm not familiar with modern military rules, but you may be able to run it up the chain of command that this is a US made WWII relic and it should be saved. It's not like it's a captured enemy AK. It's recovered U.S. Property.
This would be similar to the Sherman tank that was found in Iraq and rescued by a tank recovery crew.

Unfortunetly due to NFAs, you'll have to slice up the Right side plate to get it back in the states. And due to the ATF you might have to leave the barrel out in the sandbox.

Kroil: Can be ordered direct from http://www.kanolabs.com
I normally recommend the spray cans, but in your case you may want the gallon... or both!
I'd help you out, but I'm broke these days and selling lost of stuff to keep paying for the house.

 

[HaveBlue83]

true........it IS us property....


I had to use crocus cloth to FIND the serial and info.

its pitted....MORE than surface rust. its pretty bad. I will see what i can do for the 1919.

the rear sight is missing, and the grip is gone and the rear buffer housing has a piece cracked off as well. barrel shroud has a FEW disformed areas. I cant even SEE rifling or anything.

when you see the closeups...UGH...lemme TRY again to upload them.....

 

[HaveBlue83]

2 more for ya.....

 

[AaronHorrocks]

Heavy pitting doesn't harm the function of a 1919. Some say "it's a pocket for oil"

Lots of Kroil, and light tapping from a sledgehammer (and I MEAN light tapping. The viberations from the 'thud thud thud' help Kroil do it's thing and loosen parts)

I can't make an argument for the MG42... But that 1919 belongs to Uncle Sam. I can't tell you how some towelheads ended up with it, but it's back where it belongs.

 

[Lucky#13]

Wow, that's neat stuff. Buffalo Arms made only about 38,000 1919A4s, between March 1942 and July 1943. They stopped producing them once Saginaw Steering Gear got up to speed, in order to concentrate on .50 cal production. ANM2 aircraft gun production was dropped about the same time at BA and other factories.

That serial number is in the last series ordered, S-1250, contract # W-470-ORD-2105, for 13,500 1919A4s from Buffalo Arms, with serial number range of 477154-490653. That means your gun would have been produced in 1943, when 20,300 were built between January and July.

Do I understand you correctly that the grip is broken off the back plate? By that I mean there is obvious traces of the damage, as opposed to this being a "fixed" back plate that never had a grip. There were both 1919A4 Fixed and Flexible versions, and the pistol grip was the major difference. Also, it doesn't appear to be an A5 version, as I see no evidence of the retracting bar assembly, now that we have a picture of the right side. That would likely have been overstamped as well. Oh, and your marking should read Buffalo, New York on that last line. That might have just been a typo in your first post.

 

[HaveBlue83]

ok...i will try my best......i know you want to see it restored...i like restoring weapons.....this one is DEF good practice....


I will hold onto them then. I will get some kroil ASAP and get to work.....i have a LOT of patience.

I am gonna try and argue the M1919A4's right to come home. I will see what I can do! I can't destroy it anyways....that's depot level....LOL.


THANK YOU for that info Lucky, appreciate it....just what i wanted to know!

YES...Buffalo, New York....i must have messed up....

YES...right where the grip would attatch it is broken off.....at the bottom of the buffer tube


OK...i edited my first post....the INSP IS FJA. I thought thats what it said and i confirmed this by looking HERE:

http://browningmgs.com/Engraving/C&R.htm

it looks EXACTLY like the one pict from

"Engraving detail from the Buffalo Arms 1919A4 shown at right. Source: Private NFA collection of J.Willaert"

 

[moped1967]

on a side note to the mention of the sherman being recovered here in Iraq, My unit recovered it last deployment (Heavy Equiptment Transport Co. for the m1 Abrams) A few of our guys have pics of it, and a close buddy was the one that hauled it back to kuwait to the port. He said they didnt even bother covering up the original US markings or stars. The haji's just painted it tan.

one of the saddest "finds" ive heard of from buddy thats a Lt. Col. was shortly after the ground war they found several crates, in the cosmo, m1a1 thompsons and a Willys GPW, barried in an iraqi stock pile. even with his protest, they set charges and blew them all to hell

sorry for the hijack... back to the subject

 

[HaveBlue83]

AHHH!!!........


anyways.......yeah, i will plead to get it back to the states.....

I will argue that it needs to be either turned in or restored. I am not authorized and cannot ALLOW an Army weapons system to be cut up improperly, and i am not 40 Level so I cannot do that either.....hehehehe.....

they aren't in any rush to cut it up, so i will see. the MG-42 I will cut if it needs to go that way. It will make me sick to do it but I will if it must be done. I might as well do it. I want that serial plate too.

 

[ScottD]

Cmon man! Level 30 can perform one level above his assigned task! 45B is a wasted MOS here in NY. (NYARNG) We only have ONE weapons maint unit upstate, and as you know, 45B turns into 45K at the 30 skill level (E6) and we dont have ANY armor left in this state.

Can you duffel bag cut a 1919?