[brassmagnet]

Seems there are a few very knowledgeable folks here on NFA stuff. If I were to sell a machine gun out of state, and it is currently on a Form 4, could it be sent directly to an SOT in that state from me for transfer into their inventory on a Form 3? I'm getting conflicting answers here locally - some say no, and some say yes it is now OK to do that and they only need another Form 4 to the buyer in that state from the SOT I've sent it too.

OR???? Are TWO Form 3's required to get it to an out of state SOT?

Did I explain that clearly??

 

[jaredrLewman]

If the item is owned by a non-licensee then it transfers on a form 4. So and individual can for 4 an item across state lines to a dealer, $200 tax paid. Once on a dealers inventory it transfers on a F3.

But yes, you can transfer on F4 to a dealer across state lines

 

[brassmagnet]

If the item is owned by a non-licensee then it transfers on a form 4. So and individual can for 4 an item across state lines to a dealer, $200 tax paid. Once on a dealers inventory it transfers on a F3.

But yes, you can transfer on F4 to a dealer across state lines

Thanks for this reply. That one answer I got here [of many different ones].

So....scenario is......I have a transferable MG on a F4 in Wisconsin, and want to send it to a Georgia based FFL/SOT - to eventually be transferred to an individual on a F4. That SOT can take it into inventory [and transfer it later] once it is approved to their inventory? I do not need to transfer it to an FFL/SOT here in Wisconsin first and then have them send it to the Georgia based FFL/SOT? That makes sense to me, but apparently four dealers local to me all have differing opinions......

 

[jaredrLewman]

Can go directly to the dealer in the end buyers home state.
Will transfer from you to said dealer via F4 and $200 tax. Anytime an NFA item is going to or from a non-licensee it is via F4. When we buy individual owned collections we pay $200 tax on each one, even as a dealer.

Exception to said rule would be to an Heir or to a PD/Gov agency.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes, no need to go to a dealer in state to ship to a dealer out of state. You can form 4 direct from a private owner to an out of state dealer.

That said, many MGs are C&R at this point. If its a C&R gun and the buyer has a C&R license... you can form 4 from you to an out of state C&R FFL and not have to go to any dealer! This saves a complete Form 4 transfer fee and time. Very much worth doing. I have a C&R Chauchat come to me from Mississippi direct on a Form 4 to me as a C&R license holder. There is nothing as cool as getting a Machine gun in the mail!

 

[brassmagnet]

Yes, no need to go to a dealer in state to ship to a dealer out of state. You can form 4 direct from a private owner to an out of state dealer.

That said, many MGs are C&R at this point. If its a C&R gun and the buyer has a C&R license... you can form 4 from you to an out of state C&R FFL and not have to go to any dealer! This saves a complete Form 4 transfer fee and time. Very much worth doing. I have a C&R Chauchat come to me from Mississippi direct on a Form 4 to me as a C&R license holder. There is nothing as cool as getting a Machine gun in the mail!

Yes that's cool. I'll have to look into the manufacture date when I get time. Thanks!

 

[slowfire]

here is a question that has been bugging me, as I don't sell NFA items, but who pays that first tax, if it's a out of state transfer to a dealer? I don't see the dealer paying for it. is it the seller? who probable will add that 200 dollars to the cost of the item. or the buyer? who will end up eventual paying 400 bucks for the first and 2nd transfer?

 

[woodwalker]

Usually the buyer pays the taxes but that's something to negotiate in the price .
Just need to be up front about who needs to pay the taxes and fees
Shipping can get pricey as well with insurance

 

[slowfire]

thanks, boy that is enough of a incentive to try and locate a NFA item within your own state, and just bypass the dealer, shipping all together

 

[glassmountains]

Question.
Can the individual in one state sell it to the other individual in another state and transfer direct to him and bypass the dealer? Possible if the buyer picks it up? It's been a long time and I think you could do it that way.

 

[DoubleTapMe]

If it is transferring across state lines it must go through an FFL in the buyers state.

 

[jaredrLewman]

Question.
Can the individual in one state sell it to the other individual in another state and transfer direct to him and bypass the dealer? Possible if the buyer picks it up? It's been a long time and I think you could do it that way.

No sir. As stated above, if it crosses state lines it must go to a dealer. C&R is a dealers license of sorts so it is an “exception”, but only sort of.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Mr brass - an "easy" (not really) way to explain this:

The NFA is taxes and registration...that's it. The crossing state lines business comes from the GCA and since NFA items are not set apart as being different than any other firearms, a nonlicensee can transfer to an out of state FFL upon approval. Involving a second FFL is not prohibited, but it's absolutely, positively not required and with transfer times what they are, seems really inefficient. 18 USC 922(a)(2)(A) - sometimes dealers don't read their books.

 

[brassmagnet]

Mr brass - an "easy" (not really) way to explain this:

The NFA is taxes and registration...that's it. The crossing state lines business comes from the GCA and since NFA items are not set apart as being different than any other firearms, a nonlicensee can transfer to an out of state FFL upon approval. Involving a second FFL is not prohibited, but it's absolutely, positively not required and with transfer times what they are, seems really inefficient. 18 USC 922(a)(2)(A) - sometimes dealers don't read their books.

That is the best explanation I've seen put in writing. Thanks.

Thanks to all you guys for the responses - very helpful indeed.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I just saw an email from the ATF saying that you can not form 4 from an individual from one state to an out of state SOT. They are saying it must got to an instate dealer and then dealer to dealer across state lines. I know this is not true but I am having trouble finding it in the ATF rules. Anyone have any good links to ATF info on the subject.

Thanks!

 

[brassmagnet]

Uh-Oh.....here we go again.

Please somebody - help me/us get a clear policy/answer on this.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Uh-Oh.....here we go again.

Please somebody - help me/us get a clear policy/answer on this.

I know the answer as I have personally sent a MG out of state to a SOT... I did it when I sold jmann a MG!

I just need something from the ATF to show the ATF that its wrong again!

 

[DoubleTapMe]

ATF's NFA handbook section 9.3 interstate transfers of NFA firearms. "ATF will not approve the transfer of an NFA firearm to a non-FFL/SOT residing in a state other than the state in which the transferor's licensed business is located or the transferor resides."

They could have made it clearer. Yes you the transferor/seller can transfer interstate to a FFL/SOT in the Transferee/purchaser's state.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

ATF's NFA handbook section 9.3 interstate transfers of NFA firearms. "ATF will not approve the transfer of an NFA firearm to a non-FFL/SOT residing in a state other than the state in which the transferor's licensed business is located or the transferor resides."

They could have made it clearer. Yes you the transferor/seller can transfer interstate to a FFL/SOT in the Transferee/purchaser's state.

Yeah, really... saying what you will not do, does not say what you will do!

 

[brassmagnet]

Well.....closer, but not definitive.........

I'm going to ride the right side of fence on this one and say it's OK until I see different in writing.....