[loboslanding]

Please don't shoot the messenger, but I have new builders asking the question and I have never claimed to be a legal beagle.

How many home builds for personal use can be done per year?

The last I understood is that all legal firearms are classified the same so if a person wants to build one black powder rifle then a single shot .22 then a 45-70 Sharps then an AK then a 1919 then a cap and ball pistol, all in one year, it's all the same and there is no limit. However, I heard that you can only sell one home build per year as long as you pay the tax, but no more than one.

Experts chime in please so we get this question and answer on the new forum. Thx.

After we get the answers here I'll paste it over onto the semi build forum too.

 

[041x]

You can built as many as you want for your self.

 

[hagar]

However, I heard that you can only sell one home build per year as long as you pay the tax, but no more than one.

There in lies the problem. You cannot pay the tax unless you are a manufacturer. It is not like paying the tax on an NFA weapon which is basically $200.

 

[L999here]

How many is too many....?

There is a recent ATF ruling that an FFL,either gunsmith or class #7 Mfg. can build up to fifty (50) firearms a year and not pay any exicse tax. Without a specific question to the firearms branch ( what......you think I'm going to ask them?) I would assume (yeah....bad way to approach this...) that there would be the same or lesser requirement for an individual builder. Since there is NO SPECIFIC NUMBER mentioned in any ATF document other than this, one would be safe (?) using this criteria. IMO,of course.....

 

[loboslanding]

Sorry hagar, I should have been more specific. I meant the Fed Income Tax on the profit of the sale.

Sounds like the home builder for personal use is unrestricted on quantity, but probably wise to keep it under 50...I wish I could build that many a year .

 

[GWR1]

Glad to see this subject addressed on this board AGAIN (it was thoroughly hashed out on the OLD 1919a4.com) since it became a HEATED DISCUSSION almost to the point of an argument at the Tupperware Party, when I decided that it wasn't worth it, to come to no answer.

The last time I saw this discussed the answer was "a private builder can build as many as one wishes, and could sell them all -- but better not sell them all THIS year, or NEXT, and one'd better be closing out one's entire firearm collection," or close to all of it -- and not be "in the firearms building and selling business." ATF has not made an official "letter" on this, to my knowledge, but an FFL type 7's opinion to the contrary, this is how the ATF sees it as far as I know. Build as many as one wants!

Of course, I'm not an attorney or a lawyer, so "Your mileage may vary."

 

[weaponeer]

I think the question is really a two part question.

How many can you build?
As many as you want.

How many can you sell?
The ATF indicates none when you ask, but I have not seen that in writing.

Selling an unregistered weapon without a serial number (in any quantity) would be frowned upon by the local police, much less the ATF.

Personally (just my opinion) if you want to build... build!, but if you want to sell, then become an 07, and do it the right way. This way there are no legal questions, and you don't end up with an extended stay at club fed.

 

[hagar]

[QUOTE=loboslanding]Sorry hagar, I should have been more specific. I meant the Fed Income Tax on the profit of the sale.


You did well Loboslanding. I believe the Fed Income Tax would be the lesser of the problem that you would face. It could make you a manufacturer that is not paying his production tax.

 

[hagar]

There is a recent ATF ruling that an FFL,either gunsmith or class #7 Mfg. can build up to fifty (50) firearms a year and not pay any exicse tax. Without a specific question to the firearms branch ( what......you think I'm going to ask them?) I would assume (yeah....bad way to approach this...) that there would be the same or lesser requirement for an individual builder. Since there is NO SPECIFIC NUMBER mentioned in any ATF document other than this, one would be safe (?) using this criteria. IMO,of course.....

You could well be correct. It mostly depends on "if they want you" and "how bad they want you".

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

OK, dumb question:

Is swapping considered the same as selling? Not just personally built guns, but any guns? How much buying, selling and swapping can be done before you are considered an "unlicensed dealer"?

 

[ontos106]

The goverment will KILL YOU if they don't get there taxes
they will do anything and everything to get them

 

[loboslanding]

Cpt, in Florida you can set up a booth at a gun show and as long as you are a private seller you can sit there and sell every gun you own. I don't think you're required to do any paperwork either...it's the same thing as selling your guns via an ad in the paper. Go Sunshine State!

 

[boss429]

OK, dumb question:

Is swapping considered the same as selling? Not just personally built guns, but any guns? How much buying, selling and swapping can be done before you are considered an "unlicensed dealer"?

What would a jury say?

 

[boss429]

Cpt, in Florida you can set up a booth at a gun show and as long as you are a private seller you can sit there and sell every gun you own. I don't think you're required to do any paperwork either...it's the same thing as selling your guns via an ad in the paper. Go Sunshine State!

Not in my paper Lobo the Lakeland "Ledger" doesn't allow any guns of any kind any more...guess who ownes the Ledger...Yep the NYT spit

 

[GWR1]

Well, the "liberal" WASHINGTON POST didn't used to allow gun ads either, then the "Moonie" paper, THE WASHINGTON TIMES, came into being and allowed guns ads. Guess what? THE WASHINGTON POST does, now, too. It has nothing to do with the "LAW," it has to do with "political correctness " and MONEY -- ie., advertising. "All politics is local."

 

[boss429]

Well, the "liberal" WASHINGTON POST didn't used to allow gun ads either, then the "Moonie" paper, THE WASHINGTON TIMES, came into being and allowed guns ads. Guess what? THE WASHINGTON POST does, now, too. It has nothing to do with the "LAW," it has to do with "political correctness " and MONEY -- ie., advertising. "All politics is local."

Yep$, The ledger has no competion at all!

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Well, I live in Tennessee. Since Tennessee makes Florida look like the PRK as far as gun laws go, there shouldn't be any state issues.

 

[mspurg]

The real sticker in all of this is what is considered a Hobby, and what is considered a business. This issue also revolves around one's C & R collection. I have 12+ C & R weapons, and if I decided to sell them all, and use the money to buy a full auto 1919A4 for $14,000, then this would be considered a Hobby in my book. The problem is that you are at the mercy of the KGB controlled ATF and their lawyers/judges!!!
Gee, my first post (actually my 671st post), and I am already pissed off thinking about our mentally challenged lawyers pretending they are politicians and screwing this country up, big time!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Cpt, in Florida you can set up a booth at a gun show and as long as you are a private seller you can sit there and sell every gun you own. I don't think you're required to do any paperwork either...it's the same thing as selling your guns via an ad in the paper. Go Sunshine State!

 

[memlost]

here we go

For what it is worth.

I looked in the federal firearms regulations reference guide (2005) under general questions and here is an answer on page 117


(A6) Dose the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by the ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency

[18 U.S.C 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

This is typed directly out of the book with out changes or modifications unless caused by poor typing.

From what I read this says you can make it as long as it is not for sell. But that is just me. For those of you that want to argue this I just typed it out of the book that the ATF sent to me.

 

[DRH]

The ATF has consistantly held that the home builder does not need any special serial numbers or markings and is exempt from excise tax as the weapon is for personal use. If at a later date the used personal weapon is to be transfered, the markings required would be the same as for a manufacturer; serial number, manufacturer name and location.
Here is a fairly recent classification letter (not mine, maybe EZFEED's?) that addresses many hot topics (building with ex-MG receiver pieces, making and selling home builds):