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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im not a lawyer, and I dont try to interpret a lot of these laws simply because I get so frustrated. But, I am a FFL dealer (very low volume) and THIS WILL put me out business if I have to pay for a fully monitored system that abides by these new rules.

NY bill s4970A, Section B, states- (Im paraphrasing) that anyone engaged in the act of selling firearms must have a professionally installed and centrally monitored security system.

Is this actually part of a passed law, or did it get left on the cutting room floor in its final form? Ive dug deeply and just get caught in 'refer to bill such and such' which takes me to another 'refer to bill such and such'. Is there anyone who has any formal training in this area that can see just what is going on with this section of the bill?

(PLEASE do not turn this into a thread about what constitutes a professionally installed system....all I need to know is if this one provision has passed and is now an enforceable law)
 

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Im not a lawyer, and I dont try to interpret a lot of these laws simply because I get so frustrated. But, I am a FFL dealer (very low volume) and THIS WILL put me out business if I have to pay for a fully monitored system that abides by these new rules.

NY bill s4970A, Section B, states- (Im paraphrasing) that anyone engaged in the act of selling firearms must have a professionally installed and centrally monitored security system.

Is this actually part of a passed law, or did it get left on the cutting room floor in its final form? Ive dug deeply and just get caught in 'refer to bill such and such' which takes me to another 'refer to bill such and such'. Is there anyone who has any formal training in this area that can see just what is going on with this section of the bill?

(PLEASE do not turn this into a thread about what constitutes a professionally installed system....all I need to know is if this one provision has passed and is now an enforceable law)
I am not a lawyer. I am a dumb f*** construction worker that dropped out of HS to join the Army..... My advice is to get the f*** out of New York state ASAP!!!
 

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This is what I found, I think it was the final version (I didn't fix the spelling errors)...


2. The dealer's business premises shall be secured by a security alarm
system that is installed and maintained by a security alarm operator
properly licensed pursuant to article six-D of this chapter. Standards
for such security alarm systems shall be established by the superinten-
dent in regulation. Such security alarm systems may be developed by a
federal or state agency, a not-for-profit organization, or another
entity specializing in security alarm standards approved by the super-
intendent for the purposes of this act. The security alarm system shall
be capable of being monitored by a central station, and shall provide,
at a minimum, complete protection and monitoring for all accessible
openings, and partial motion and sound detection at certain other areas
of the premises. The dealer location shall additionally be equipped
with a video recording device at each point of sale and each entrance
and exit to the premises, which shall be recorded from both the indoor
and outdoor vantage point and shall maintain such recordings for a period of not less than two years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is what I found, I think it was the final version (I didn't fix the spelling errors)...


2. The dealer's business premises shall be secured by a security alarm
system that is installed and maintained by a security alarm operator
properly licensed pursuant to article six-D of this chapter. Standards
for such security alarm systems shall be established by the superinten-
dent in regulation. Such security alarm systems may be developed by a
federal or state agency, a not-for-profit organization, or another
entity specializing in security alarm standards approved by the super-
intendent for the purposes of this act. The security alarm system shall
be capable of being monitored by a central station, and shall provide,
at a minimum, complete protection and monitoring for all accessible
openings, and partial motion and sound detection at certain other areas
of the premises. The dealer location shall additionally be equipped
with a video recording device at each point of sale and each entrance
and exit to the premises, which shall be recorded from both the indoor
and outdoor vantage point and shall maintain such recordings for a period of not less than two years.
Thats EXACTLY what I found, but I keep seeing 'see this version' and 'see this' version. Ive totally lost track of the legislative process (simply because it doesnt seem to matter here in NY) but I was hoping the final bill would have had some revision that left this out. Like maybe this was the rough draft or something.
 

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The hell with both 'liberal' coasts...!! If you want FREEDOM,move to UT,TX,TN,KY.IN,FL and several midwest and southern states.where we live cheaper,have much better gun laws and hold our political class more accountable than the dem's that are in power on both the east and west coast's. .

Get your ass and assets out of CA and NY....QUICKLY...!!
 

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Thats EXACTLY what I found, but I keep seeing 'see this version' and 'see this' version. Ive totally lost track of the legislative process (simply because it doesnt seem to matter here in NY) but I was hoping the final bill would have had some revision that left this out. Like maybe this was the rough draft or something.
I got to this from the NY state page that showed the bill's history including that it was signed. It had a download bill text option that got me to the PDF. Not saying they it's right but it's a good guess...

The alarm system aspect probably isn't very cost prohibitive if you don't have one already. A 3 camera video system would be cheap if it weren't for the 2 year retention part. The easiest way to increase the amount of video you can save is to reduce the resolution and frame rate. Rapidly you get to a recorded video that is useless to look at, probably not what they intended but I suspect it's what they will get....
 

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The hell with both 'liberal' coasts...!! If you want FREEDOM,move to UT,TX,TN,KY.IN,FL and several midwest and southern states.where we live cheaper,have much better gun laws and hold our political class more accountable than the dem's that are in power on both the east and west coast's. .

Get your ass and assets out of CA and NY....QUICKLY...!!
Nooooo, I have lived in a number of those states and the grass is NOT greener there. Well actually because of all the rain it is actually greener, but you know what I mean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Guys, please refrain from telling me useless info like how much NY sucks or that I should move. I cannot effect either at the moment and Im simply looking for some clarification on a law.

Id venture to guess that over 50% of NY FFL's are small, home based operations. NY is looking to wipe out small gun businesses, plain and simple. I wish there was some grass roots organization or lobby that actually had some pull in Albany, but we tried before and lost every battle due to the deep pockets of the Democrats entrenched in office.
 

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@ScottD I will preface it as I am not a expert but am friends with some NY FFL. The information that @Western Iron posted is what I understand to be the final law.
Professional monitoring and video that it’s be retained for 2 yrs.
And as you know living there, NY state goal is to put you out of business. Wish I had better news but you guys got screwed hard.
 

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Not to sound like Capt obvious, but why don’t you just contact your state congressman/woman and ask them about that bill?
Man - from what you describe, I’m glad I live in Utah. Good luck - I sincerely hope they don’t vote that into law. What BS !
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not to sound like Capt obvious, but why don’t you just contact your state congressman/woman and ask them about that bill?
Man - from what you describe, I’m glad I live in Utah. Good luck - I sincerely hope they don’t vote that into law. What BS !
The last time I contacted a local representative, (In regards to the NY safe act) I was told by some low ranking employee "You dont need machine guns or that kind of stuff, this law isnt bad at all"....thats as far as I got. The sheer mention of 'firearms issue' to a local politician is enough to have you escorted out of their office.
I also participated in several thousand strong protests in the Capital (NY). At the end of the day, we all went home and nothing changed. 85% of NY's population is concentrated into 1/20th of its land mass (all dem) .....that 1/20th rules us all. We are outnumbered almost 8 to 1 here.
 

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Understand. Honestly if I were in your shoes, I’d make an appointment with their staffers and see if they truly understand the implications for low volume FFLs. Demonstrations are great, but the 1 v 1 might be more pointed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Understand. Honestly if I were in your shoes, I’d make an appointment with their staffers and see if they truly understand the implications for low volume FFLs. Demonstrations are great, but the 1 v 1 might be more pointed.
In theory, I totally agree with you. In practice, Ill just be the angry red neck army veteran right wing conservative wacko. Trust me, Im an educated, well spoken guy...Ive delivered speeches to crowds of hundreds before, Im an effective communicator...but these nimrods dont want to hear ANYTHING that goes against the edicts that come from Albany. Once they get elected here, they just suck off the Albany tit.

I just cant believe this passed with NO opposition and NO pushback from ANY groups. This came out of nowhere. Youd think there would be some pro gun lobby here warning us of this sh/t BEFORE it gets passed into law.
 
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I got to this from the NY state page that showed the bill's history including that it was signed. It had a download bill text option that got me to the PDF. Not saying they it's right but it's a good guess...

The alarm system aspect probably isn't very cost prohibitive if you don't have one already. A 3 camera video system would be cheap if it weren't for the 2 year retention part. The easiest way to increase the amount of video you can save is to reduce the resolution and frame rate. Rapidly you get to a recorded video that is useless to look at, probably not what they intended but I suspect it's what they will get....
I was going to suggest one of the cloud-based camera packages (Ring, Nest, Arlo, etc.) but in doing some quick searching, it seems that they all have a 30-day retention limit.

Here is a quick overview of the most popular: Best Cloud Storage Home Security Cameras of 2022

As @Western Iron said, a small camera system wouldn't be cost prohibitive, just storing two years of video... that's not a simple or inexpensive hurdle.


@ScottD - Does NY state inspect FFLs? I don't think an ATF IOI would enforce this ridiculousness.
 

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I was going to suggest one of the cloud-based camera packages (Ring, Nest, Arlo, etc.) but in doing some quick searching, it seems that they all have a 30-day retention limit.

Here is a quick overview of the most popular: Best Cloud Storage Home Security Cameras of 2022

As @Western Iron said, a small camera system wouldn't be cost prohibitive, just storing two years of video... that's not a simple or inexpensive hurdle.


@ScottD - Does NY state inspect FFLs? I don't think an ATF IOI would enforce this ridiculousness.
I don’t know how they would even know what the potential retention time would be storage wise of a video system.
 

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I went to college in upstate NY and met a bunch of good freedom loving gun folks so I feel for ya. Sucks that upstate is ruled by some urban clowns because it is some beautiful country.

My ADT costs me $53 a month for monitored door and motion sensors, so maybe that would check those boxes. I have no idea on the camers, but I would buy the cheap stuff like they use at the laundromat and corner mart. The minimum to check that box. The 2 year retention is the hard part.

Best of luck and don’t give up. Stay in the fight.
 

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Gents; if you run a brick and mortar business in NY and do not have cameras, you are asking for trouble. the type of surveillance that is being made mandatory has already been in place as a requirement of dispensaries and grow-ops. for the marijuana industry in legal states (NY,AK included). so there should be plenty of resource for these @resonable cost.
unfortunately, the TRUE intent of this (besides being burdensome on small biz's) is for customer identification for LE unwarranted! this coupled with facial recognition will be quite invasive! the one upside of this is that it will shine a light on nefarious fly-by-nite sellers who don't want their sales/customers tracked that easily.
 

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ScottD, there is this thing called Simply Safe for business, it is easy set up ( if you already have wifi in that location ) and $27 per month with unlimited storage, and 24hr live monitoring, in the U.S. ! ... incluided. Aslo, you get to pick the type and flavor of, the number of, and set up the cameras, and where they actually point to... as well as the resolution of the cameras. In practice, unless the cameras are set up just right, all you can see is: there was a man, with a cap on, but you cant tell who it was, how old, or what his face looks like, or even how many yeas he had, so if you must do this just to comply with a vague future statutory regulatory reqirement, but you do not want to buy the best ( more expensive cameras), then just get the cheap minimum resolution ones, and point them in the reqired basic general direction, of where they want you to point them. As far as I have been told, there is no upper limit on the video storage time, and if you have live monitoring, than primarily perimeter door/ window motion sensors type of a thing, and camaras (optional) than the storage and notifications to your phone are free... As for trying to figure out NY state laws, that is way above my pay grade. Hope this helps you some. Jim.
 
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