1919 A4 Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I visited my NFA dealer once my out of state 1919A4 was transferred in state. The 1919 is a .308 chambered, DLO manufactured, and nicely riveted. However, I noticed a mish-mash of parts - between USGI and Izzy. Will this cause any problems?

Izzy parts:
  • Bolt
  • Barrel
  • Rear Cartridge Stop
  • Rear Cartridge Guide
  • Front Cartridge Guide
  • Trunnion
  • Booster


USGI
  • All other parts
  • Top cover and all components are .30 cal, not .308
  • Lock frame & Trigger

Can you use a .30 USGI top cover to shoot .308? Any help appreciated. Thankfully, I bought a really nice Izzy parts kit from a local. So I do have a .308 setup... I just wanted a dependable extra.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,117 Posts
It will run fine with GI cover, or you could do like I do and swap out when running 7.62. It is not a big deal. I am surprised itrl running a GI lockframe. Most FA guys say the Israeli lockframe screw adjustment is easier or setting the timing. Congrats on the new toy.

Sounds like Doug built is,as a GI build but someone set the necessary parts to run 7.62
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
It will run fine with GI cover, or you could do like I do and swap out when running 7.62. It is not a big deal. I am surprised itrl running a GI lockframe. Most FA guys say the Israeli lockframe screw adjustment is easier or setting the timing. Congrats on the new toy.

Sounds like Doug built is,as a GI build but someone set the necessary parts to run 7.62
That is a bummer. The IZZY lock frame is the best invention ever. Bending the trigger bar is a real pain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,417 Posts
I visited my NFA dealer once my out of state 1919A4 was transferred in state. The 1919 is a .308 chambered, DLO manufactured, and nicely riveted.

Can you use a .30 USGI top cover to shoot .308? Any help appreciated.
It will run fine with GI cover, or you could do like I do and swap out when running 7.62. It is not a big deal.

Congrats on getting closer to possession of your 19191 NBC LT!


What are the differences between the GI top cover and the Izzy top cover?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,117 Posts
The differences is to accommodate the izzy feed pawl. The finger is bent further over, where the gi feed finger is straight. The Israelis milled out the edge of the feed pawl to accommodate the lower part of finger depressing into that area, it also required them milling the rear of the topcover feed pawl slide channel to allow the finger to depress. You can still use izzy modified slides in a gi cover or gi feed pawls and slides in an izzy modified one, but you cannot use the izzy pawl in the gi cover or gi slide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
FYI, "paintmanmatt" is currently selling lockframes with the Izzy style adjusting screw for $20, should be a good investment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the answers

As per everyone's advice, I have;
  • Bought a modified lock frame from paintmanmatt, I'll sell my GI version later on.
  • I will obtain a Izzy modified top cover, slide and feed pawl for .308 - I'll probably sell the USGI top cover slide and feed pawl later on.

Thanks for helping me make some decisions about how to run this weapon.
 

·
PhD in Over-Engineering
Joined
·
12,236 Posts
As per everyone's advice, I have;
  • Bought a modified lock frame from paintmanmatt, I'll sell my GI version later on.
  • I will obtain a Izzy modified top cover, slide and feed pawl for .308 - I'll probably sell the USGI top cover slide and feed pawl later on.

Thanks for helping me make some decisions about how to run this weapon.
Since there is not that much money in selling off those components, I would suggest you keep them as spares. Spares are good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
As per everyone's advice, I have;
  • Bought a modified lock frame from paintmanmatt, I'll sell my GI version later on.
  • I will obtain a Izzy modified top cover, slide and feed pawl for .308 - I'll probably sell the USGI top cover slide and feed pawl later on.
Thanks for helping me make some decisions about how to run this weapon.
Don't waste your money on an Izzy top cover assembly. The USGI 30.06 top cover will work perfectly without any modifications whatsoever. But, if you're bound and determined, go for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Nice!

Thank you for the advice MG34. I know that the 54R mod needs an IMI cover, but I was really surprised when the MG showed up with a USGI lock frame and top cover. Is the USGI top cover slightly less reliable for .308 use? Is there any issue with the USGI top cover and the .308 in belts or links?


Don't waste your money on an Izzy top cover assembly. The USGI 30.06 top cover will work perfectly without any modifications whatsoever. But, if you're bound and determined, go for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
Thank you for the advice MG34. I know that the 54R mod needs an IMI cover, but I was really surprised when the MG showed up with a USGI lock frame and top cover. Is the USGI top cover slightly less reliable for .308 use? Is there any issue with the USGI top cover and the .308 in belts or links?
I don't do 54R so I can offer no experience. A USGI top cover works just fine when shooting .308 in both cloth belts and links. The differences between a USGI top cover and Izzy top cover are minor. Both Rollin and I have stated on multiple occasions that the key to successfully running .308 ammo is the right rear cartridge stop (RRCS), not the top cover. The RRCS determines how deep, or shallow, you can load your ammo whether you are using a cloth belt or steel links. In my case, my '17A1 has a USGI 30.06 RRCS installed. That dictates I must load .308 ammo very shallow, too shallow to work well in cloth belts. But, not too shallow for links. So that's what I use links with .308 ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,417 Posts
I don't do 54R so I can offer no experience. A USGI top cover works just fine when shooting .308 in both cloth belts and links. The differences between a USGI top cover and Izzy top cover are minor. Both Rollin and I have stated on multiple occasions that the key to successfully running .308 ammo is the right rear cartridge stop (RRCS), not the top cover. The RRCS determines how deep, or shallow, you can load your ammo whether you are using a cloth belt or steel links. In my case, my '17A1 has a USGI 30.06 RRCS installed. That dictates I must load .308 ammo very shallow, too shallow to work well in cloth belts. But, not too shallow for links. So that's what I use links with .308 ammo.
Dan, would it not be easy enough to simply have a couple different RRCSs drilled and tapped for a countersunk screw so that they can easily be changed out depending on whether you're running belts or links or want to change calibers? I'm considering doing this for my soon to arrive 1919 which is chambered in 8mm but I will want to swap to 54R (and maybe 7.62x51) depending on ammo availability. It seems that the only semi permanant part is the RRCS.

Would there be a downside to my idea?
 

·
PhD in Over-Engineering
Joined
·
12,236 Posts
Dan, would it not be easy enough to simply have a couple different RRCSs drilled and tapped for a countersunk screw so that they can easily be changed out depending on whether you're running belts or links or want to change calibers? I'm considering doing this for my soon to arrive 1919 which is chambered in 8mm but I will want to swap to 54R (and maybe 7.62x51) depending on ammo availability. It seems that the only semi permanant part is the RRCS.

Would there be a downside to my idea?
Not to reply on Dan's behalf, but your idea has been done. One member here, greaser, has a system for that. I've considered it, just haven't bothered because I've not shot 7.62 in the Brownings for years. Been all -06 and 8mm. Check in with greaser for his input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
Dan, would it not be easy enough to simply have a couple different RRCSs drilled and tapped for a countersunk screw so that they can easily be changed out depending on whether you're running belts or links or want to change calibers? I'm considering doing this for my soon to arrive 1919 which is chambered in 8mm but I will want to swap to 54R (and maybe 7.62x51) depending on ammo availability. It seems that the only semi permanent part is the RRCS.
Would there be a downside to my idea?
The easiest thing to do is simply install an Izzy .308 RRCS and be done with it. The Izzy RRCS works just fine in both 30.06 and .308. As for me, my '17A1 is a real honest to goodness C&R Rock Island Arsenal manufactured weapon. The story of its acquisition and resurrection is well documented on this site. Its 30.06 configuration was good enough for Uncle Sam in 1942, and by God it's good enough for me.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,417 Posts
Not to reply on Dan's behalf, but your idea has been done. One member here, greaser, has a system for that. I've considered it, just haven't bothered because I've not shot 7.62 in the Brownings for years. Been all -06 and 8mm. Check in with greaser for his input.
The easiest thing to do is simply install an Izzy .308 RRCS and be done with it. The Izzy RRCS works just fine in both 30.06 and .308.
Thank you both. So the only caliber that really requires the changing of the RRCS is 30-06?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,474 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,417 Posts
Even better! Thanks for the link I searched earlier but did not find that thread.

Thank you

<sits back and starts reading>
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top