[KABAR2]

Sam White, a dealer in Civil War relics died this past week when a large shell he was aparently disarming blew up!
A 14 pound piece of the shell hit a house 1/4 of a mile from his residence,
Sam was a knowledgeable dealer in ordnance and was one of those people the collector community could go to to have their items disarmed.

ATF is investigating the accident and trying to figure out what White could of been charged with........ As if that matters.

Link to news story and video

http://www.nbc12.com/home/15737917.html

http://www.nbc12.com/news/state/15762097.html

It goes with out saying if you have any live civil war ordnance this stuff still poses a real
threat to life and limb, disarming it should be left to the professionals and even then there are
no guarantees.

 

[Woodco]

I live 3 miles away from where it happened heard somthing that sounded like a door slamed at the end of a hall. Didn't think anymore about it untill the paper came the next day. He had a very nice collection.

 

[2ndShooter]

ATF is investigating the accident and trying to figure out what White could of been charged with........ As if that matters.

Let me be the first to thank the BATFE for keeping us safe from good law abiding citizens.

If it wasnt for the ATF I would probably be afraid of Al Qaeda. I wonder which of the two has a higher body count of killing innocent Americans?

 

[mt-ac]

Relic Shells are DANGEROUS

The key problem with these 1860's pieces is that in spite of their age the powder charge being simply black powder still has a very good potential for exploding. The US actually kept a CSA facility in operation long after the first civil war ended because it was "state of the art" in terms of safety at the time. While the opportunity to dig for these becomes less, they still turn up from time to time. West of me is a well known company that works exclusively with restoration of civil war artillery, it is a fun place to visit. The owners also have the privledge of firing the pieces at times with LIVE rounds. It is sad to have such a mishap, but if ya gotta go better going while doing something you enjoy.

 

[1919_4_ME]

Whats sad is when the shell exploded it blew off both his legs and one arm and then he slowly died at the scene.

 

[weaponeer]

Years ago a national guard unit had a WWI shell in thier display case, and they noticed it didn't have the required holes in it for demil, so they decided to drill them.

they drilled the first hole and upon pulling the bit out the room was filled with smoke and the men got VERY sick.

Come to find out they drilled into a mustard gas shell that was still live!

they all lived... but it's a good reminder that if it looks live it likely still is.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

I bought a military trailer that was once in the Montana National Gaurd.

They converted the lunette to a 2" ball in a majorly sloppy way (also adding about 2' to the tounge messing up all the geometry), had hacked up the wiring harness, did work on at least 1 bearing and installed the wrong type/size, and took a torch to the fenders and sliced them up for no good reason.

I guess that's the national guard for ya.

 

[2ndShooter]

I guess that's the national guard for ya.

As of Feb. 9 2008


4,582 Hos/Non-Hos & WIA

 

[phalanx]

Thats to bad I saw him on a web site once ,he had a beautiful collection ,now the feds have it all.
He had shells from about every Civil War Battle that was fought.
Somehow he even had the back up harpoon for the Hunley in case the one on the sub was lost or broken.
Did ATF grab that one also
When i was in Iceland our EOD got scrambled to sea because some fishermen had dreaged up an old German mine and were cutting on it with a torch to see what was inside.

 

[linc_64]

About 10 years ago, my brother was down her in North Carolina, plowing some cable TV lines in. While he was on the tractor plowing, he had a guy feeding the cable in the plow. After a while he turned around and saw his helper beating a piece of old dirty steel against the back of the tractor, trying to knock the dirt off. So he stopped plowing, and asked the guy, "what did I plow up"? The guy brings it over, my brother looks at it. Realizing it's a civil war, unexploded cannonball. My brother and his helper quickly moved to a safe distance and called the police, They inturn called the demolition crew from MCAS Cherry Point, who quickly Blew it up. Telling my brother," he was VERY lucky the plow did't blow it up. They just shook their heads when he told them about his helper beating it against the tractor. He fired that guy PDQ. After the news report that night, the next day there were so many pepole out there with metal detectors, my brother couldn't get the cable put in.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

What was the "helper"'s age and country of origin?

 

[KABAR2]

Thats to bad I saw him on a web site once ,he had a beautiful collection ,now the feds have it all.
He had shells from about every Civil War Battle that was fought.
Somehow he even had the back up harpoon for the Hunley in case the one on the sub was lost or broken.
Did ATF grab that one also
When i was in Iceland our EOD got scrambled to sea because some fishermen had dreaged up an old German mine and were cutting on it with a torch to see what was inside.

From what I have seen in the news ATF was taking everything in as evidence, as of this morning
his website was taken off the net,

evilBay has yet to remove his auctions.

 

[fjruple]

I heard of a simular incident in Northern Virginia about thirty years ago about Christmas time. One of the local resident thought it would neat to have two 15 inch Rodman shells to hold the logs in his fireplace. He had acquired the two shells from a local scrap dealer who thought they were solid shot. The owner placed them in his fireplace and use the fireplace several times as the weather got colder. Thank God the family just happened to be out visiting relatives when one of the shell exploded. Leveled the house. Investigator initially thought the explosion was caused by a natural gas explosion in the fireplace. The owner told the investigators that he did not have a natural gas fireplace but used firewood. He then told them about the two shells that were used to hold the logs in place. As it turned out one of shells was an explosive shell and the other solid shot. As it turns out the blackpowder in the shell was damp and the fire dried out the blackpowder and the rest you can guess. Any old explosive or ordnance should be respected just like the newer stuff.

--fjruple

 

[AaronHorrocks]

Any old explosive or ordnance should be respected MORE THAN the newer stuff.

Frequent movement throughout the decades can grind the bits of propellant down into explosive. Also age can cause break down and seperation of explosive materials making it more volitile.

 

[mspurg]

I "second" the motion! I am a very "strong" believer in the ATF wasting their time on what is obviously a freak accident!!!!! However, I now feel a hell of a lot safer, as you have indicated, from the threat from the Al Queda, and especially the future female suicide bombers that I see all around the Houston area!! I mean the ATF is really on top of this one. I think this should go to the Supreme Court, and that all of his relatives, including his wife, kids, grandkids, brothers and sisters should be given life sentences in prison to "protect" us from any future “barbaric” acts, such as this!!!
When will these retarded Fedtarded asswipes get their head out of their asses?!!!!!!

Let me be the first to thank the BATFE for keeping us safe from good law abiding citizens.

If it wasnt for the ATF I would probably be afraid of Al Qaeda. I wonder which of the two has a higher body count of killing innocent Americans?

 

[phalanx]

Allen ,this guy had that Harpoon ,At one of the shoots i went to he had flyer's all over the place showing all his collection.
He wasn't there but some relative of his was.
He also had Cannon Balls from the Alamo , from both sides and none of his stuff had powder in it ?
He had a Flag from the Union forces at Gettysburg ! and he had sort of a little museum at his home.
Some of his stuff is priceless ,and he got it all Legally.
That stuff belongs to his Heirs ,how dare ATF to haul it all away,and i bet it is never returned.
Are they going after BP next ?

 

[hotchkissmtrifle]

You guys are getting a little over nervouse on this, yea the guy died and that is a shame. However, being in the museum restoration business I can assure you that probably 50% of all county musuems have atleast one live shell either in storage or on display-they are EVERYPLACE! If you ever spend any time around a commerical painter-now that is SCARY. Those guys paint a barn roof hanging from a rope spraying away and they all use gasoline for thinner in the paint. Any kind of ignition source and the crew, the barn everything is going to go flash. I helped a guy when I was a kid, I poured and stirred the gas with aluminum paint, I will juggle live shells anyday before I will hang from a rope spraying gas! Hotch

PS: I know of one Musuem that has a cannon in storage, both trunions are broke off and it has a shell spiked in the bore, when you measure it is 3 shells deep. I am willing to bet those are 3 live shells and if they will ever let me I want to tap the vent and use a hydraulic grease pump to try to push them out.

 

[oldtirediron]

We should all be careful !!!!

This reminds me of two experiences that I had-- several years ago. I used to go to a Flea market in the early snow filled months of March etc; to look at the typical garage sale goods. I can honestly say that this particular flea market was the best for WWI - WWII and up stuff you could ever imagine. I truelly miss it but for two instances- I once picked up a nice civil war cannonball and realized something right away-- There was black powder actually oozing out around the bormann time fuze-- It was live alright and probably the most unstable item I have ever touched in my life. The sun was out and the powder was decomposing and fizzing out-- Another time I looked at a 37mm Mortar shell-- I looked at it and it was still primed with a good primer- Yes it was live and thank god it wasn't armed-- The fuze was in it and basically the guy that had it had no idea it was live---Again no pin in the nose fuze and yes the body was TNT filled-- I was lucky and from that point on I always paid a lot closed attention to items I picked up on a garage sale or flea market table--

 

[arty6pd]

Casualties

Yes, it makes lots of us wonder, which is more dangerous to American civilians the ATF.... or unexploded civil war ordnance.
Considering everything and taking into account Waco and Ruby Ridge, more citizens have been killed by the ATF than old civil war ordnance during the last hundred years or so......
Food for thought

 

[KABAR2]

Here is an update on the accident from some months back

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080502/ap_on_re_us/cannonball_death