[rak1004]

A AW-SIM, took about 20 minutes to figure out how to install it and get the kinks worked out, really a ingenious piece of work here, solidly built, nice looking, only problem I dont have a tripod yet, but am getting one soon, so I can just sit here and look at it and dry run it. I even emailed a question about the trigger, and guess what, he actually called me within 2 hours on the PHONE, I have a hard time getting some companys to email me, but this man took the time and called, so I have nothing but praise and wonderful things to say about the aw-sim company. If you dont have one, look into getting one, I can see this ones gonna eat alot of .308.

 

[Commander47]

What exactly is this? Does it actuate the trigger? Is it some kind of mechanical "Bump fire" device. I can't see how this works.

Also, doesn't this guy sell a tripod for this already for 100.00?

thanks

 

[rak1004]

The way I understand it, and believe how it works by looking at it, is as the gun fires it rocks back in its cradle which in turn pulls the trigger again where its forced back forward again unitl the next round goes off and it starts all over until the ammo is exausthed. And yes he sells cans for about 40.00 and tripods for 99.00 I believe. He has videos on his website and I will record one when I can get the tripod, I didnt have enough to buy the pod this time, but will get it soon.

 

[DrSmeller]

I must get one!

 

[blkbd]

http://www.aw-sim.com/pics & videos.htm click on the 1919a4 video.

Rak1004 canyou show us behind the spade grips is the trigger pad a pushin or pull down with the thumbs? When X-mas gets here I know what I want-Have to tell everyone to pitch in for the one gift.

 

[iRIGHTi]

BumpSpades! Very nice!

yeah yeah...Kal sucks

 

[57Strat]

I just watched the videos of the AK47 and the 1919, and I'm betting that it would be considered a machine-gun conversion by the BATF. It appears the device is basically a mechanical connection to the trigger that automatically pulls the trigger each time the gun recoils (powered by recoil), without any assistance from the gunner other than holding the trigger down. If the gunner is not providing the energy to depress the trigger for EACH shot that is fired, you can bet the BATF is gonna say it's illegal.

Take a look at the videos and see what you think. It doesn't appear that the gunner is repeatedly depressing the trigger for each shot.


I hope I'm wrong, because it sure does look like alot of fun. I just don't want to see anyone get into any trouble.

 

[57Strat]

I was poking around the web-page and found the "BATF Approval Letter" for this device. The ATF basically made 2 clear points in the letter:

1. The device appears to be a remote firing apparatus for a semi-auto weapon.
2. They could not get any firearms to function with the device. They tried several.


I'm betting, based on the two above points, the BATF mistakenly concluded that the device is not an illegal machinegun conversion.

I would bet if they saw it functioning, they would change their opinion.

http://www.aw-sim.com/Documents/BATF Approval edited.pdf

 

[1919Semi-Owner]

Does it work with any tripod or only the ones available on the web site?

I may just have to wait until there is more feedback and if ATF pays any visits to the owners.

 

[F-Troop]

The BATF approval letter signed by Sterling Nixon is official and states that the device is not considered a machine gun. It looks like the ATF will all its use on semi's with no legal restrictions at the Federal level.

This is good news since Emory has ceased production of his crank fire.

I like the fact that one can get a set of spade grips and rapid fire for the price. For me it's a bit pricey but the AK device looks interesting.

I wonder if the 1919 simulator will fit on an M2 tripod?

 

[blkbd]

I was poking around the web-page and found the "BATF Approval Letter" for this device. The ATF basically made 2 clear points in the letter:

1. The device appears to be a remote firing apparatus for a semi-auto weapon.
2. They could not get any firearms to function with the device. They tried several.


I'm betting, based on the two above points, the BATF concluded that the device is not an illegal machinegun conversion.

I would bet if they saw it functioning, they would change their opinion.

http://www.aw-sim.com/Documents/BATF Approval edited.pdf

I think the first paragraph of page two says it all and that the classification of a semiauto weapon would not change do to the device.

 

[blkbd]

Does it work with any tripod or only the ones available on the web site?

I may just have to wait until there is more feedback and if ATF pays any visits to the owners.

From the creator of the AW-SIM you need a stable base for it to work.
Her eis the thread that started it http://www.1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1481&highlight=aw-sim

 

[iRIGHTi]

I'll reread the CA DOJ regs again tomorrow. Damn! The thing may even be legal in Kal! At first glance it looks like a bullseye right in the loophole.

 

[Mark Genovese]

I believe 57 Strat is absolutely right, was this device submitted and tested with a 1919 ? According to the paperwork it was not.

Mark

 

[gewehrpatrone]

That was exactly the question I placed to them (ATF) via a telephone call to the FTB. A gentlemen who would only identify himself as J.B. said that as long as the device you buy is exactly as described in the apporval letter that it is legal to use on a 1919.
I then asked for written clarification, he stated send a letter detailing our conversation to them and he would have a reply sent.
I suggest a few more people placing phone calls to them asking the same question might make them move on clarification of their approval letter to Steve.
I`m not trying to rain on anyone`s parade here or ruin Steve`s venture however like some of you I found the original approval letter a bit vague and have no desire to purchase a product that our friends in W.V. may change their minds on. Just my two cents...........
Mit Fruendlichen Grusen,
gewehrpatrone

 

[rak1004]

the trigger is pushed in on the spades, and it is like a pivot to the trigger, it pulls it back and up to fire, I dont see it as anything more than a bump fire assistance, since the trigger is released and reset each time. And it is supposed to work with any tripod, all the information is on the website. And the ATF has already apporved it.

 

[57Strat]

the trigger is pushed in on the spades, and it is like a pivot to the trigger, it pulls it back and up to fire, I dont see it as anything more than a bump fire assistance, since the trigger is released and reset each time. And it is supposed to work with any tripod, all the information is on the website. And the ATF has already apporved it.

I believe the ATF mistakenly approved this device without a full understanding of what it really did. They clearly point out in the ATF letter that they could not get it to function and that they thought it was a "remote firing device for a semi-auto rifle".

I believe this device would not qualify as a bump-firing device because it is ATTACHED to the firearm (that's a key point--attaching it makes it a modification to the weapon), and it uses the energy from the weapon firing (recoil) to release and pull the trigger automatically. A typical bump-firing device it not attached to the weapon and requires the shooters body to be a part of the design. This design appears that all that is required is the recoil of the firearm to make it automatically pull and release the trigger until the magazine/belt is empty, with no other input from the shooter other than pulling/pressing the trigger, and that would make it a machinegun according to the legal definition of a machinegun.

 

[blkbd]

I believe the ATF mistakenly approved this device without a full understanding of what it really did. They clearly point out in the ATF letter that they could not get it to function and that they thought it was a "remote firing device for a semi-auto rifle".

I believe this device would not qualify as a bump-firing device because it is ATTACHED to the firearm (that's a key point--attaching it makes it a modifacation to the weapon), and it uses the energy from the weapon firing (recoil) to release and pull the trigger automatically. A typical bump-firing device it not attached to the weapon and requires the shooters body to be a part of the design. This design appears that all that is required is the recoil of the firearm to make it automatically pull and release the trigger until the magazine/belt is empty, with no other input from the shooter other than pulling/pressing the trigger, and that would make it a machinegun according to the legal definition of a machinegun.

Hey 57 I have one of those Hellfire trigger systems and its clamped to the triggerguard and does the samething as the AW-SIM and its ATF approved also all those crankfire devices and other trigger activators all attach to the firearm. I believe that they were trying to say by modifacation to the weapon as not to alter in anyway that would acheive fullauto fire by messing with the internal works of the gun-Say the device tripped the sear instead of the trigger by a hole drilled in the receiver, Now that kind of modifcation would reclass the weapon as fullauto even if you need the trigger device. A good example is you cant use the lower right rail from a full auto AK47 as it has a slot for a autosear-Your gun has no autosear but still illegal to use it as a rail in a semi.

 

[57Strat]

I'll post my quote again. Pay close attention to the red text.


"I believe this device would not qualify as a bump-firing device because it is ATTACHED to the firearm (that's a key point--attaching it makes it a modifacation to the weapon), and it uses the energy from the weapon firing (recoil) to release and pull the trigger automatically."



In simple terms, if the human operator expels the energy to depress the trigger (or an extension of the trigger) only once, and the gun fires more than one round, it's a machinegun. If the gun or some other powered device (batteries, electricity, stored spring energy, recoil, gas, etc) provides the the energy that causes the weapon to fire more than one round with no other assistance from the human operator, after the human operator expels the energy to depress the trigger (or an extension of the trigger) only once, then it's a machinegun.

The Hell Fire, hand operated cranks, and bump-firing devices require constant manipulation from the human operator to have the unit continue to fire rounds after the trigger is initially pulled once. In my opinion, the AW-SIM is using stored spring energy (created from recoil) to fire more than one round with a single pull of the trigger, which makes it a machinegun according to the legal definition.

 

[blkbd]

We could be at this all day But the device is not motor driven and works on the same as bumpfiring. With some trigger fire devices your finger hits the spring that leverages the trigger and a finger never touches the trigger itself, SO these should be illegal by your definition. Granted the ATF has made some rules that are assadine and they could change there ruling on any law they want but if they do so then units that have sold should be grandfathered as these can be sold over the counter with no paper work and tracking them would be hard. Since there is a letter from the ATF I don't believe they can charge you with a felony if they change there ruling, But if you afraid then just dont buy one and let everyone know they have been warned.