[Mr.Maim]

M1910 "Snow Cap" Maxim parts kit purchased! - Build cost advice?

I've recently been presented with an opportunity to buy an M1910 "Snow Cap" Maxim parts kit.

I bought the kit, I figured I'd post some pics.

The top cover is stamped "1945" and has a truncated pyramid symbol above some Cyrillic characters. Based on forum members input below it is Russian. Non-numbers matching. No missing parts! Woo hoo! The water jacket is in good condition with no major dents and all the threaded water and steam hose connections are in good shape (no damaged threads). The water jacket inside is filled with cosmoline. Barrel is shiny and there is very sharp. The parts kit and mount were purchased from Allegheny Arsenal in 2002 and have been stored in the dry Phoenix, AZ area for the past 13 years. There isn't a single spot of rust on anything.

- Both left and right side plates are torch cut but the seller has the front and rear pieces for both plates which have the lock cam, pads, dovetails, etc. intact

- Sokolov Mount included. Looks good and the T&E appears to be undamaged. Shield included

- Two metal PKM Goryunov ammo cans filled with links are included

- No water/steam hoses or water/steam/oil cans are included

 

[Mr.Maim]

 

[panaceabeachbum]

Looks like a fair price to me, and yes Midwest Metal Creations has side plates . I just sold an original left sideplate on GB a few days ago

 

[Fractal]

Very solid deal

At todays prices, especially with a shield for the Sokolov, that is a very solid price. Nice Russian kit.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes, good deal. The Fusee Screw will be a PITA but can be found/worked around. I would say this kit is worth between $2750-$3000 or so. Parts all look pretty good. Everyone likes these tractor cap all matching kits more.

Also you don't want an original plate. The original plates were all for early guns. These late guns don't fit well on them. Dennis sells both plates that will work perfect together, just get a two new sideplates. Plus then Dennis can match (mark) both plates to the kit.

 

[Z06]

very nice kit

What is the cost to build the kit?

 

[panaceabeachbum]

Not sure about early plates not fitting well with snowcaps, I've only had 7, but I am currently running a post sample and a semi both running the original side plates that ima and 7.62 were selling and mine have all fit up just fine.

I think a fair statement would be that all pre 1960 Russian arms were hand fitted and if you decide to use an original plate that some fitting will be required.

And since that parts set isn't matching # you (or builder) will need to do some amount of hand fitting, but not a big deal.

 

[midwestmetal]

2800 to build, repaint, refinish, and it will look as good as the day it left the factory. TAT around 6-8 months. No money due until built and ready for refinish, you just ship me the kit and it goes in que.
If interested email me at;
[email protected]
Thanks,
Dennis Ricke
MMC.LLC 07/02 FFL

 

[midwestmetal]

And I can make you a new tensioner lead screw for nominal fee.

 

[Mr.Maim]

Looks like a fair price to me, and yes Midwest Metal Creations has side plates . I just sold an original left sideplate on GB a few days ago

Yes I was watching that auction out of curiosity. This parts kit 'heads up' came to me the day after that sideplate sold. It was almost like when you end up with a gun part for a firearm you don't own, then end up buying the firearm so that that part has a home.

Yes, good deal. The Fusee Screw will be a PITA but can be found/worked around. Parts all look pretty good. Everyone likes these tractor cap all matching kits more.

Also you don't want an original plate. The original plates were all for early guns. These late guns don't fit well on them. Dennis sells both plates that will work perfect together, just get a two new sideplates. Plus then Dennis can match (mark) both plates to the kit.

Thank you. I've seen many of your posts regarding the Maxim so I know that if I am missing something you will likely be a good resource to reach out to. Thank you!

Not sure about early plates not fitting well with snowcaps, I've only had 7, but I am currently running a post sample and a semi both running the original side plates that ima and 7.62 were selling and mine have all fit up just fine.

I think a fair statement would be that all pre 1960 Russian arms were hand fitted and if you decide to use an original plate that some fitting will be required.

And since that parts set isn't matching # you (or builder) will need to do some amount of hand fitting, but not a big deal.

"Only" 7! HA! That's awesome. Thank you. And thank you for the note about hand fitting. I was hoping this'd be as easy as a 1919. Perhaps not.

2800 to build, repaint, refinish, and it will look as good as the day it left the factory. TAT around 6-8 months. No money due until built and ready for refinish, you just ship me the kit and it goes in que.
If interested email me at;
[email protected]
Thanks,
Dennis Ricke
MMC.LLC 07/02 FFL

And I can make you a new tensioner lead screw for nominal fee.

Thank you sir. I will reach out to you once I have completed the purchase. Just for general information: you do produce and sell sideplates to sell, outside of doing complete buids, correct?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Not sure about early plates not fitting well with snowcaps, I've only had 7, but I am currently running a post sample and a semi both running the original side plates that ima and 7.62 were selling and mine have all fit up just fine.

I think a fair statement would be that all pre 1960 Russian arms were hand fitted and if you decide to use an original plate that some fitting will be required.

And since that parts set isn't matching # you (or builder) will need to do some amount of hand fitting, but not a big deal.

Hmm, thats interesting. I have not had the same experience and often to get question on sideplates not fitting when using an IMA plate on a Tractor cap kit. Did you have to modify or reset the dovetails to get them to work? Dennis, what have you observed? I don't think I agree on the Pre-1960 stuff all needing hand fitting. Most Russian Maxim parts interchange pretty well. Actually I had found the sideplate to be one of the few exceptions. Even the Finnish parts usually work without fitting from what I have seen.

Also note how the dovetail rivets are done. PreWWII, they are flush. WWIIish they just left the sticking out.

 

[bmg17a1]

The only country to build 1910s was Russia, with the Finn interwar and wartime Maxim production being their own versions, and the truncated pyramid has been tentatively identified as the stamp of an arsenal that repaired 1910s and made some new parts like feed blocks recoil plate assemblies, etc. It also has been claimed to be the stamp of a small production facility that formerly made other products but was commandeered later in the war to build new 1910s. the major makers factories had been moved to protect them from the germans and there were small facilities providing various types of materiel. One of the original registered C+R 1910s that I own is a 1944 dated example from that arsenal. Quite a few of Allegheny Arsenal imported 1910 kits are stamped with that ID logo.
Depending on how tight one fits the dovetails, some of the early and interwar dovetails will fit the late and wartime trunnions and backplates. Generally the early and interwar dovetails are very slightly wider than the late thirties and wartime dovetails but it isn't an issue unless one has an original sideplate with the dovetails riveted to it and wants it to fit well to a specific trunnion or backplate. However, in the absence of dovetails that fit well, dovetails are being made by several outfits that have the correct taper and can be worked to fit any of the dovetails slots in trunnions and backplates. All 1910 internals are completely interchangeable in any 1910, in my experience, regardless of year of production, with the exception of 1889 pattern Maxims, they will fit Maxims made by all other countries, such as German, Swiss, US, Chinese, etc. 1910 feed blocks do not fit all other Maxims but that's a different story. Currently have 25 registered Maxims in my collection and have built between forty and fifty transferable, post-samples and semi-auto 1910s and their Finn Maxim cousins. Can't stay way from them…..8^)
Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[Rory]

Currently have 25 registered Maxims in my collection and have built between forty and fifty transferable, post-samples and semi-auto 1910s and their Finn Maxim cousins. Can't stay way from them…..8^)
Anyway, hope this helps.

you're killing us here.

25?!


rory

 

[Mr.Maim]

The only country to build 1910s was Russia, with the Finn interwar and wartime Maxim production being their own versions, and the truncated pyramid has been tentatively identified as the stamp of an arsenal that repaired 1910s and made some new parts like feed blocks recoil plate assemblies, etc. It also has been claimed to be the stamp of a small production facility that formerly made other products but was commandeered later in the war to build new 1910s. the major makers factories had been moved to protect them from the germans and there were small facilities providing various types of materiel. One of the original registered C+R 1910s that I own is a 1944 dated example from that arsenal. Quite a few of Allegheny Arsenal imported 1910 kits are stamped with that ID logo.
Depending on how tight one fits the dovetails, some of the early and interwar dovetails will fit the late and wartime trunnions and backplates. Generally the early and interwar dovetails are very slightly wider than the late thirties and wartime dovetails but it isn't an issue unless one has an original sideplate with the dovetails riveted to it and wants it to fit well to a specific trunnion or backplate. However, in the absence of dovetails that fit well, dovetails are being made by several outfits that have the correct taper and can be worked to fit any of the dovetails slots in trunnions and backplates. All 1910 internals are completely interchangeable in any 1910, in my experience, regardless of year of production, with the exception of 1889 pattern Maxims, they will fit Maxims made by all other countries, such as German, Swiss, US, Chinese, etc. 1910 feed blocks do not fit all other Maxims but that's a different story. Currently have 25 registered Maxims in my collection and have built between forty and fifty transferable, post-samples and semi-auto 1910s and their Finn Maxim cousins. Can't stay way from them…..8^)
Anyway, hope this helps.

It sure does help! Thank you very much for your reply! I've read 100+ posts of yours on this and another forum in the past few days and you are indeed infected with a Maxim virus!

Truncated pyramid. Outstanding. That gives me something to go on in looking through the Russian forums. The history of firearms fascinates me as much as building, repairing, cleaning, and shooting them does so thank you for sharing.

I'll bump this thread when I purchase the kit. Any other information is welcome!

 

[candrmg]

It sure does help! Thank you very much for your reply! I've read 100+ posts of yours on this and another forum in the past few days and you are indeed infected with a Maxim virus!

Truncated pyramid. Outstanding. That gives me something to go on in looking through the Russian forums. The history of firearms fascinates me as much as building, repairing, cleaning, and shooting them does so thank you for sharing.

I'll bump this thread when I purchase the kit. Any other information is welcome!

I met bmg17 last year at the Julia Auction - he is true gentleman and scholar of Maxims and just about every other machine gun!

There were quite a number of Maxims there including an all matching C&R 1944 version captured in Korea.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

....Depending on how tight one fits the dovetails, some of the early and interwar dovetails will fit the late and wartime trunnions and backplates. Generally the early and interwar dovetails are very slightly wider than the late thirties and wartime dovetails but it isn't an issue unless one has an original sideplate with the dovetails riveted to it and wants it to fit well to a specific trunnion or backplate. However, in the absence of dovetails that fit well, dovetails are being made by several outfits that have the correct taper and can be worked to fit any of the dovetails slots in trunnions and backplates...

Yes thats been my experience too. That the preWWII sideplates don't fit the later war dovetails slots. If you are going to pull the dovetails and put new ones on, why bother. IMO the OP might as well get a new plate from Dennis and and have sideplates that match.

 

[Mr.Maim]

Updated original post with new pics. If anybody wants detailed pictures of any part let me know. I took 136 pictures before I pack it up and send it off to be built.

 

[panaceabeachbum]

IMO the OP might as well get a new plate from Dennis and and have sideplates that match.

And I agree with that, since they are more affordable and easier to source, but i still think the minor effort needed to fit an original plate is well worth it to keep as many original parts as possible. Just my .02

As far as the general interchangeability of Russian gun parts across the board I stand by my original statement that they are hand fitted and alot of the parts are not directly swapable. I have a number of PPSH, dp28 and Rpds and very few of the parts interchange without some amount of fitting. Yes the 1910 is loose enough to interchange most of the internal parts but not entirely.

 

[Mr.Maim]

I'm working on it fellas.

Just getting my shopping/wish list together.

 

[BobNPrc]

Dennis built mine and he does exceptional work. It comes back gorgeous and running like a Swiss watch. He gave me an estimated completion date and exceeded it. It's not a cheap build but you get your money's worth - every penny.

The only problem you will have is - an it's a small "fun" one - is trying to get your Sokolov mount to look as good as your new Maxim does.

The whole thing gets pretty heavy to lug around so I took an MG3 AA tripod I use for my 1919's and put a 1910 maxim adapter from Hellbox armory on it. Now I shoot it standing up. The AA tripod is a lot lighter an easier to transport and set up than the Sokolov mount. I can swap the mounts for the different weapons with no problem. I just got an MG34 adapter for it, too. A pretty handy tripod to have around.