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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone,
I asked on weaponsguild for help with this gun and was recommended I ask here.
Boss man bought a postie Maxim 1910. Finnish snowcap.
It had a few issues. Here's what I fixed, in case any of these are relevant:
Headspace was too tight to chamber live rounds
Side plates were severely warped, barrel assembly could not cycle all the way rearward
Fusee spring tension was basically random
Bent trigger transfer bar

So we worked through all that. What it's doing now has us puzzled
We started with a fusee spring tension of 7kg. It was running very very fast, because I misunderstood the instructions. Apparently more spring tension makes it run faster?
Dropped the tension to 4kg and it's still running very fast. Tula ammo nonetheless.
My math puts it at 720 rounds per minute in the video. The internet says it should be 5-600 depending.

I wouldn't be super worried about a fast ROF if it weren't for the misfeeds. Lowering the spring tension made it run far more reliably, but still not great. Every 15-20 rounds or so the round will "miss" the chamber, side to side (not up and down) and kink the bullet sideways. Strangely, the whole lock assembly does not seem to have enough play to recreate this by hand or even with a little bit of light prying.
Any Maxim gurus here?

 

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Do you have water in it? Do you have the gland packing in there?

If not you might need a really low spring tension as there is not enough resistance. I mean the glands and packing should not do that much but its something.

If you are running dry, you can also unscrew the end of the booster should slow down the recoil force.

Basically I would start with low spring tension and then work my way into higher spring tension until it cycles 100%. You might want to do 1 round at a time so make sure you don't really short stroke a bullet back into the feedblock and set off the next rounds primer.

Take a picture of the left side with the fusee cover on.
 

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I didn't see the video on the weaponsguild post....looks like its plenty free. You need a smaller booster orifice and a looser fusee spring setting. It is running way too fast. At that sort of speed the round will flop around in the lock face enough to miss the chamber. Things do funny stuff when they're moving at the sort of speeds you get running at 1000rpm in a gun meant to do about 500-700rpm. I've seen some brownings do funky things to ammo and parts when run too fast.....

Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the quick responses guys.

I do have water in it, but no packing material. It only leaks a little bit, so I figured it would be good enough just to keep the barrel cool.

Basically I would start with low spring tension and then work my way into higher spring tension until it cycles 100%. You might want to do 1 round at a time so make sure you don't really short stroke a bullet back into the feedblock and set off the next rounds primer.
This one does have the half cock notch, so if I understand correctly the short stroke shouldn't be able to strike the next round in the belt? Please correct me if that's wrong.
I've had it anywhere from 4kg spring to 8kg, the only difference is that it misfeeds more often at 8kg. Same exact malfunction as above, just more frequently.
Here's the picture as requested:

Automotive tire Bumper Motor vehicle Fender Sewing machine
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I didn't see the video on the weaponsguild post....looks like its plenty free. You need a smaller booster orifice and a looser fusee spring setting. It is running way too fast. At that sort of speed the round will flop around in the lock face enough to miss the chamber. Things do funny stuff when they're moving at the sort of speeds you get running at 1000rpm in a gun meant to do about 500-700rpm. I've seen some brownings do funky things to ammo and parts when run too fast.....

Frank
Man do I feel that last part. Guns sure do weird and almost unexplainable things sometimes.

Anyways, here's what the booster looks like:


The main hole in the front is 0.551"
The series of holes at the back are roughly 0.258" each


one more thing I noticed. Should these ears be bent?
 

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Please take your fusee spring cover off and lets see the spring and how far it is screwed into the fusee screw. Please take a picture there. I am guessing the answer is in there.

Yeah those half cock notches are nice.

I don't think the Russian's ever had different booster holes sizes did they?

The bent recoil plates ears are not a big deal and you can bend them back easy.
 

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From the Vickers manual (but also will apply to the Maxim):

Fussee spring tension should be 7-9lbs. This is measured with the lock removed. Attach your spring measure to the crank handle and slowly pull up - read to weight the instant handle begins to move - that's your fussee spring tension. Adjust the tension accordingly until you reach 7-9 lbs.

Weight of the recoiling assembly should be 4lbs. This is measured WITHOUT the fussee spring in place. With packing in place push the recoil assembly all the way forward, hook the loop from the spring measure on the crank handle and begin pulling rearward. The instant it begins to move is your recoil tension. If it is more than 4lbs your packing is too tight - if it is less than 4lbs it's not tight enough.

Packing will effect the ROF.

A weak mainspring in the lock will also effect the overall tension in the recoil assembly although not by much.

As for the live round hitting the side of the chamber that should not be happening unless the extractor is well worn along with the entire lock/ recoil assembly causing the round to move side to side as it moves forward going into battery. Somewhere something is allowing the round to move at least .150" (more than half the diameter of the bullet) from the center of the bore. The problem here should be fairly apparent once you start pushing and pulling. Check the extractor springs on the recoil plates - if one is broken or bent out too much there is a possibility the other will push the extractor off center.


A note on shooting 54r in a Vickers - because of the different in recoil impulses and energy special packing glands were issued when shooting 54r which allowed the user to slow the ROF. They were just packing glands without a booster and looked similar to the packing glands for a 1917 BMG but were brass. The guns functioned fine without the booster and it didn't beat the heck out of the parts. Wouldn't be much different in a Maxim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re @Outdoordave:
Thanks for the very detailed response.
7-9 pounds of spring tension is right in the range I've been trying, the numbers above in kilograms (my armorer's gauge reads kg), so that's nice.
The weight of the recoiling assembly was read as you instructed, I got 4.2lbs. no packing
You say extractor springs - plural. I only have one, on the right hand side. The other pictures of Russian and Finnish guns I can find are the same, just the one side. There's no evidence of one on the other side or even a place for it.
 

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Hmm, those pictures don't really show anything out of place either. Looks like Russian/Finnish spring.

How much thread can you continue to unscrew before the fusee spring comes off? I would just screw pretty much as far as you can.

What ammo are you shooting? Is it hot?

This is usually the opposite problem most Maxims have. Most have something hanging up... you seem to have all polished edges with teflon surface finish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'll try setting it with just a few threads engagement, and see what happens.
Running crappy Tula ammo. I was suggested to try something more known and reputable. Problem is I have several thousand rounds of Tula and maybe 40-50 rounds of anything else. I talked to another Maxim owner that had no issues with Tula, so I suspect it's an issue with the gun rather than ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Interesting thing we just noticed. The PKM belt has a ton more wobble in the gun than a Maxim belt. We haven't tried a Maxim belt yet because I forgot we had one.
I think the round kinking may be happening during recoil, stripping the round out of the belt. We were able to make it jam up by hand here at the shop.
Guess I've got a nice list of things to try next range trip.

 

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I'll try setting it with just a few threads engagement, and see what happens.
Running crappy Tula ammo. I was suggested to try something more known and reputable. Problem is I have several thousand rounds of Tula and maybe 40-50 rounds of anything else. I talked to another Maxim owner that had no issues with Tula, so I suspect it's an issue with the gun rather than ammo.
It will be interesting to see with min fusee spring tension.

Tula is not great ammo but I don't think it known for being hot. It would be good to try at least a few rounds of something else. If you knew it was the ammo, you could always remove the cap from the booster and that should slow it down when using that ammo. I guess you could do that either way...
 

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How are you measuring fusee tension? The manual is pretty specific how it's done.

Do you have the tension spring tool?


1.) Lift lock out of action and and allow to rest on top of grip plate.

2.) Loop one end of the gauge on the knob of the cocking handle.

3.) Use one hand to hold rear of gun down and other to pull the other ring on the tension gauge up to check fusee tension as shown.


Your tension is just as the cocking handle starts to lift doing this test.

Minimum is 4kg.









Also, you are correct with the fusee spring hook, it goes only that way.

 

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It looks like the left plate might be missing the extractor cam riveted in and I’d bet look inside the gun, it might be laying in there If its only the cam missing.
I was in a hurry to post and made corrections, I was way off north.
 

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Interesting thing we just noticed. The PKM belt has a ton more wobble in the gun than a Maxim belt. We haven't tried a Maxim belt yet because I forgot we had one.
I think the round kinking may be happening during recoil, stripping the round out of the belt. We were able to make it jam up by hand here at the shop.
Guess I've got a nice list of things to try next range trip.
Try getting either the cloth Maxim belt, or the Finnish steel Maxim belts.

The PKM belts are made with the SG43 and Maxim in mind, so they should work though.
 

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PKM belts are Maxim belts. They were designed specifically for the 1910 maxim in the 1930s. They were one of the first metal belts used by a major power as standard issue. They are more flexible than the Finnish Maxim belts which the Finns designed because they felt the russian belts were too flexible and allowed double feeds. Both belts work well with the russian guns.

Screw the use of spring loaded measuring guages on the fusee. The guns run best where they run and not where the book suggests. Most of these guns are over 80 years old the springs vary considerably along with the amount of drag in the system. Set it where the gun runs best. If you over tighten it the gun won't fully cycle. If you under tighten it the lock won't fully close so it won't fire. If your cocking handle is almost all the way down tighten up the fusee a little. There is a reason so many of the spring guages are around and in good shape, no one used them.

You can run the gun without packing and some guys will run a few rounds without water. I prefer to keep the barrel packed at both ends with the booster in its soaking can. That way you never blow your booster downrange because you forgot to tighten it(we hope) and you've always got packing. The packing affects how the gun runs and without packing you may have another good reason for the running speed you got. No drag means it runs faster.

Lastly, there are different bore diameters on the booster orifice. I'll try to measure a couple of mine this evening. I have a feeling your gun would run fine with no orifice in place. It unscrews from the booster body so you'll need two wrenches to get it loose. If you didn't remove it when you cleaned everything it may need some heat or an oil soak to break it free. Buy a spare. It is a very good spare part to have on hand for that one time you forget to bring the one on the gun or the time someone forgot to tighten it and it blew about 100 yds downrange in the middle of a shoot.


Frank
 

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Agree, add the packing to increase tension and open up your booster orifice to lower boost. Try a different steel cased com bloc military load first to make sure its not the new Tula ammo. Opening up the headspace by a few .001 will also lower boost. Its alot easier to slow thee maxim down from an overboost condition than it is to add boost to get a gun to run.
 

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....
Screw the use of spring loaded measuring guages on the fusee. The guns run best where they run and not where the book suggests. Most of these guns are over 80 years old the springs vary considerably along with the amount of drag in the system. Set it where the gun runs best. If you over tighten it the gun won't fully cycle. If you under tighten it the lock won't fully close so it won't fire. If your cocking handle is almost all the way down tighten up the fusee a little. There is a reason so many of the spring guages are around and in good shape, no one used them.
....
:) I was not going to say it but yes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you very much for the responses, everyone.
I've read them all several times and I'm sure I'll read them again. Hoping to get back out to the range sometime next week and do some more testing.
 
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