[30calmachinegunner]

I have 2 RH side plates, cams, new dovetails and action arm supports available for anyone who wants to do SHERMANS conversion, I would like to do it as a builders package if possible for my part. I am not sure what SHERMAN charges for his part of the build but we have a gentleman's agreement between us that a person needs to get his builders package for me to do it.

The plate, action arm support, cam and a pair of dovetails will be $325, I also offer the conversion of the full auto parts along with making the new semi auto parts for $350. So for $675 plus whatever SHERMAN charges you can get your semi auto maxim going (you'll need to supply the LH plate for now***).

I only have 2 sets to let go at this price, I expect the new price will be around $725, please let me know if there are any questions, thanks Brian


*** The reason about the LH plate is that it is identical to the full auto RH plate and my concern that making one, even with no holes in could be misinterpreted by the BATF***

 

[loboslanding]

Hey Brian, in addition to what you're providing for $675 what else does a person get from Sherman to get the gun going?

EDIT: I just PM'd Lonnie to ask what else does he provide to complete the conversion.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

Just bumping it along

 

[oprod]

bottom plate

how much for just the bottom plate?

 

[infoseeker456]

Any updates on the maxim builds. I have a kit. Just waiting to see what I should do with it. Would love some guidance.

 

[mp40gunner]

Brian,

That is a darn good price that you are giving out on the setups. The machining is really the hard part, the putting it together really wasn't that bad. The Maxim was much easier than the Vickers IMHO. I really like the one that you built and I hope that plate worked out for you to finish the second one.

Cain

 

[moosiah]

maxim

I'm saving my $ for one of these no kidding,,,,,,, I pm'd sherman some time back about this ..... and I like his setup best.. I'll be talking to you soon.

 

[weasel_master]

Any help on what to do if I've got a tractor cap kit but no left plate?

 

[30calmachinegunner]

Probably the cheapest way is getting one of the laser cut blanks out there, since the LH and RH plate are essentially identical until the dovetails, cam and pintle pad are installed. I don't feel comfortable making them myself, besides they are already out there.
A little more costly alternative is finding one of the original LH plates that are out there, I believe IMA had some. If getting one of these try to get it with all the above parts installed.

I have some cams and dovetails if needed for the conversion also.

 

[weasel_master]

Someone told me the IMA sideplates weren't compatable with tractor cap kits. I understand the reason for staying away from LH plates for you. I'll be getting in touch soon to pick up the semi stuff from you.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

I really don't know what would be different on the plates, they have nothing to do with whether there's a big hole in the water jacket or not.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

That is correct however they are from different productions and because of that the dovetails to not line up correctly. They are just a bit off and its enough to screw things up. I have a IMA kit (No Cap) and the side plates cut from the AA tractor cap kits do not fit. I mean you could beat them on with a hammer but they are not right. In turn I have heard that the side plates IMA sells do not fit correctly on the AA tractor cap kits. I think Lonnie and I were talking about this a while back. If you don't believe me, give it a try but I think you will find out that there are differences.

Also to note on the sideplates... The AA cut plates have the rivets sticking out from the sideplate. This level of finish is very poor. Now the IMA plates are ground flush and do not have that "war" time finish...

IMA below

AA below

The IMA kits I hear are from Finland and are a mix of earlier russian parts and finnish parts. Almost all Russian parts are preWWII. AA kits are from Bulgaria and are mostly late war kits.

This all may not be true across the board but I am pretty sure on most of it. If one of you guys with a tractor cap kit would tell how there IMA plate fits (or doesn't), I would be interested to know.

You can get $40 Maxim plates here... I don't know if they are any good but there they are. Plus
http://www.stenparts.com/Sideplates/sideplates.html

Dangola has cams...
http://www.angolaarmory.com/m60.html

I really don't know what would be different on the plates, they have nothing to do with whether there's a big hole in the water jacket or not.

 

[bmg17a1]

The dovetails used with the IMA interwar manufactured 1910s are slightly narrower than the dovetails used on the plates of wartime manufactured tractorcap 1910s, if I recall correctly. IMA's sideplates will generally fit the dovetail slots in the interwar 1910 trunnions, but not the later tractorcap trunnions.
Even dovetails within the same style and vintage of 1910 can be too tight or too loose depending on the trunnion slots involved.
The axial alignment of original plates with the dovetails rivetted in place can be different as well, assembling so that the closure slots do not line up accurately on the axis of the barrel. Then there's the height of the plate at the trunnion, where they can be too short, requiring welding to build up the height of the plate so the top is flush with the trunnion. Usually with these eplates the height of the plate in the trunnion is directly related to where the extractor cam is positioned, which is the determining factor. Adjusting the height of the plate in the trunnion without keeping track of the height of the cam is asking for trouble. Too high and the extractor horns will not pass over the cam, and if the plate is too low the extractor horns will not pass under the cam.
I've built quite a few FA 1910s using a original plates, as well as cut sections form the AA plates, but find that it is almost better just to start with plate material and newly made dovetails and set them up correctly for the specific trunnion.

Bob Naess

 

[rocco1911]

What about

What about removing the dovetails from an IMA plate & installing the dovetails that come with the tractorcap kits? wont that work?

 

[midwestmetal]

Maxim building

Bob,
What about the angle that is cut into the front of some of the tractor cap plates? I've noticed that on many there is a ??? degree angle (I can't recall off the top of my head). If you take a regular squared edge plate and run it along the trunnion and don't cut the angle into the front of it, it will push the position of the feed block towards the back of the gun around .025-.030. I've had it cause a problem where I needed to remove the dovetail and start all over when I first noticed it.

With the feedblock moved back that amount the round when presented to the extractor will cause the lock to stop its forward movement just enough to cause the full extractor rise to be tight and interm.

Also have you ever noticed that on some feedblocks if you look straight down the broach cuts, the rim of the round must go thru when being fed in, that on non tractor kits the area that holds the rounds position is flush. On feedblocks of tractor kits this area is not flush and actually is machined down about .030-.035, which allows the round to be held more towards the front of the gun. This is very noticable on aluminum feeds. I've always wondered if this causes interchange problems? I've yet to try it.

I've built up 10 of these things in the last 5 months and everyone of them sans a few of the AA ones are different in construction and specs. Makes it challeging sometimes but never dull.
Dennis
Midwest Metal Creations LLC 07/02
Home of the semi 1910 maxim gun

 

[bmg17a1]

In reply to Rocco, rivet hole locations usually are not going to be the same between different plates and dovetails, and the dovetails might be too loose or too tight if lined up with the different plate. Remember, the dovetails are cut to length that fits the slots tightly, and are the same length as the height of the plate, so when fitting to another dovetail slot, they may need to be longer on one end or the other to fit tightly. There really are no shortcuts with this stuff since the specs are so variable between guns. Make new dovetails or have them made for you. It helps to have the dovetails slightly thicker than the depth of the slot, maybe .002-.005" if you are rivetting them which will give some allowance for compression of the dovetail into the plate. This will prevent the dovetail from compressing to a point where it will not slide into the dovetails slots.
In reply to Dennis, the bevel on the front edge of the plates is to anchor the edge, and is an important detail. Anchoring the front edge "under" the edge of the trunnion gives the plate added strength against bending and possible tearing/loosening the dovetail rivets. The guns could get severly banged around in field use, and this detail adds some protection to the strength and integrity of the receiver box/trunnion joint.
In regard to leaving off the bevel, the feedblock cutouts should not be done until both plates have been dovetailed at the front and fitted to the trunnion. Once the sideplates have been finish fitted to the trunnion, then the feedblock cutouts can be cut into the plates, which will then place the feedblock in the correct place relative to the point of battery of the lock.
I assume from your observation that you are using plates that have the feedblock cutout already cut into the plates. If that is the case, then you have to be very careful to fit the plates so that the cutouts are in the correct location. Feedblock cutouts can be moved back and forward by removing metal and the welding at the opposite side, etc.
There is quite a bit of available slack in the headspace nut and stirrup if the feedblock is located too far back. The back end of the lock stirrup can be relieved and/or the back end of the nut can be relieved if the lock up is too tight and the extractor cannot rise fully. This assumes also that there are no shims under the nut at this point, too.
The mouth of the feedblock varies as you have noted, but the adjustable headspace allows the extractor to be "fitted" to a particular feedblock, so interchanging feedblocks on a specific gun is simply a matter of making the adjustment.

Hope this helps.

Bob

 

[midwestmetal]

You hit the nail right on the head. I am using plates that have had the feed cutouts already done. Sort of a function of selling complete serialized plates to people for them to complete their own guns.
I've had to move the position of the block on a few tractor guns by the machine and weld method you described. I do it to the feed itself since there are mods I need to do to it anyway.
Always an enlightening conversation.
Thanks again,
Dennis