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Discussion Starter #1
Okay heres the low down on the MGS/WLA trigger & Sear. I purchased one of these units about a month ago and after getting my internals back from 30cal tried test fitting my new T&S well it wouldn't go. So I'm starting this thread so all of you that may have purchased this combo will now know what you will need to do.

First I am going to refer to this unit as a Type 1 (I will post a picture of this unit as it came to me in the next 5 days.) As mfgrs. make changes as they find out they didn't make something correctly.

The first thing you will notice about the unit is that if you compare the FA unit to your new SA unit you will notice that the SA unit is about 1/4 in longer. The problem with this is that when you finally do get all your parts in your 1919 the breech cam lock will not ride up and down in its slot because the trigger is forcing the barrel extension forward so you can't wrack the action and get the breech block to move downward so it disengages the bolt.

Solution: On the trigger there are two roll pins remove the one to the rear and wah lah its appx. 1/4 shorter. Now that removes alot of the spring tension on the sprung engagement that contacts the sear but you can get a longer spring to put in there to take up the slack. I will be posting more info about specific changes springs etc. and pictures as I get my gun ready for a So Kal shoot on the 23rd.

Yes I will be contacting the mfgr. about this problem as soon as I get it completely resolved so you all won't have to go through this. This info is being posted as I know a group buy had gone on through weaponeer.com around the same time I received mine it does not mean these units will be the same so compare yours to the pictures of the units I will be posting...

Oh yah and to address the issue why didn't I get a Karma T&S its because I wanted to try something different (so shoot me). Toms really great I got a front cartridge stop through Karma and even though my order was small he treated me the same as a large order Thanks Tom. So I'll be looking into one of his units for my next unit a watercooler perhaps...

Any questions your welcome to contact me via email or board message
 

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I can help you with your trigger issue, it really is a great design. I'm busy right now so I will get back and post here later to let you know what is going on.
 

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The trigger and sear you bought is almost identical to the one we use in our guns, it is a very beafy design. But, what wiselite arms does differently than ours is that make the trigger out of a new unit we weld our triggers from part of the original. The unit you have should be about the same dimension as ours.

Now here some things you may have to do to make it work properly. First you in your semiautomatic milling did you relief cut the rear of your barrel extension so that the new trigger bar can have forward movement? from the sounds of it you did not do so because you removed the rear pin in the trigger block to make up for the difference, which is a big no no. There is a reason for that pin and it is there to make sure your rearward travel is restrained so it does not pull your trigger bar under your sear. there are actually two preventive measures designed into the trigger to prevent the disconnector from going under the sear, the other measure is a raised section on the underside of the disconnector.

Anyways, because your trigger is longer you may need to relief cut the slot in your backplate so that the trigger can pull higher. This is the whole problem that is being delt with when installing a spade grip crankfire from emory jones on guns with this style of trigger. The rear slot is not cut high enough to pull the trigger and disconnect the sear. Also with this said you will also need to relief cut half of the material in the back of your lock frame on the underside of where the timing screw goes.

Once all is done you should have one of the nicest trigger assemblies on the market with perfect reliability. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
In response

Thanks for your reply Allied Arms I appreciate being able to bounce info off of someone that has more experience in this field than I. In my first post I mixed up the lock frame and the barrel extension must be the 12hour shifts they get to me. I already removed material as you stated from under the where the timing bolt screws in... no biggy thats a given in a lot of situations. However getting back to the issue of relieving material from the back of the barrel extension. How much material do I need to remove just enough to clear it about a 32nd of an inch all the way around plus the depth of where it would fit in the barrel extension.

After I put the internals back in the receiver I marked the angle of the accelerator and noticed it pushed the internals further apart than what I previously thought thus it would allow the disconnector to come in contact with the sear. So your dead on... I put the roll pin back in... I just couldn't see it at first, fatigue messes with your head.

Thanks for letting me see it your way
 

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You'll cut into the barrel extension so that it is about a quarter of an inch into it and clears the the width of the disconnector. The cut should be flush with the extension that sticks out and goes into the lock frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Whew!!!!

Got it all togther dry fired on a dummy round and she seems to be ready to take to the range should be heading out today after work...
 

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problems ???

well after weaponeer said he broke one of my triggers "everytime he took it out"i wondered why he never wrote me and asked for replacements. ( i do this as a matter of course). he said that he didn't, "everytime". i would just like to say thank you to all the people that have continued to buy KMP product's. thanks for your support !!!!we try to produce the best on the market,. along with the best guarentee. you break it, i'll replace it. your karma always returns. thanks again. tomt :eek: :eek:
 

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tomt said:
well after weaponeer said he broke one of my triggers "everytime he took it out"i wondered why he never wrote me and asked for replacements. ( i do this as a matter of course). he said that he didn't, "everytime". i would just like to say thank you to all the people that have continued to buy KMP product's. thanks for your support !!!!we try to produce the best on the market,. along with the best guarentee. you break it, i'll replace it. your karma always returns. thanks again. tomt :eek: :eek:
Actually you did replace the first T&S I broke, but I didn't send in the others.

If I understand correctly the new KMP T&S (which I have not used) are stronger than the old units.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
WLA trigger sear report

WLA trigger sear report: Trigger and sear from WLA/Military gun supply working fine with the information provided by Allied Arms Thanks again. Test fired 100 rounds through in links and belts very successful.

Just as a note Weaponeer The advice Allied arms gave was dead on. Brian aka 30calmachinegunner knows of what steps to take for any internals that need to be milled.

Warning:
This trigger and sear only come with a One year warranty. If it has to be warranteed I will post info on the transaction here...

I hope this thread becomes useful for people that are trying this different product and I look forward to trying one of the Karma products... I would like to place emphasis on this... I only tried a different product other than Tom's T&S at Karma to try something different so more information could be gotten out about the different product most people seem to have Karma products which is a fantastic product and I have gotten great service from Karma... Just trying to help other builders out there. Hope I don't have bad Karma now...
 

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Karma trigger relief cut

I've got two of Tom's trigger and sears and two of Emory's spade grips. No need for relief cut on either one of mine. If I get a 3rd gun I will not hesitate a second to build it EXACTLY the same as these two. Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hey just tryin'

Hey just tryin' to keep things cool TomT I really appreciate you guys sending out my little piddly order of two front cartridge stops for me as quick as you did. In the reality of things my choice of trigger and sear was not based on the fact of who makes the best or has the best warranty etc. It was a matter of there was very little known of this unit, we don't know how the mgfr. is going to handle warranties or how they will stand behind there product, it's more or less research for other members that have either purchased the unit and need to know what they need to know to make it work and like I said to see how they stand behind there product. Like everyone else on this forum we know how you stand behind your product. Hands down the Karma is the best deal for the price and the warranty.

I have yet to see a karma unit in person but at the shoot this weekend I'm definetely going to check one out. Next build will be on a Karma set up.

DeadTrainGuy this project was a means to an end to answer questions for people that may just happen to buy the WLA unit. A lot of people impluse buy out there I sat on the 1919a4 forum for a year reading everyones posts before joining and buying my first parts set. To the beginner they may not do what I did, and as I was talking with 30calmachinegunner the other day he was really surprised that they sent no instructions with the unit. So it was a project with merit, I would never knock someones product that would be bad karma...;) I completely understand everyones loyalty to the Karma product.
 

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I have fired over 2k rounds of SA .308 thru my 1919 semi since buying one of the wla sears and triggers at knob creek. I did not have to relieve the back plate at all but did have to cut the reilef in the bbl extension for the front of the trigger. Very nice product, light smooth trigger pull
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yep

Yep thats basically what I did... did you remove material from the bottom of where the time screw goes in on the trigger/lockframe. When you got your WLA trigger and sear did they instruct you as to how to install it?
 

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Like I said before the trigger you are using is almost identical to the one we use in our guns. It is extremely durable. I have had lots of experience with both AA/WLA and KMP triggers and sears and there is no complaint either direction. The major benefit you will get out of the WLA is that you can run either a rear trigger spring or a 1/4" coil spring in the front. The trigger was designed to fit in the original 06 guns that did not have a timing screw they were cast so the design was made so that you could put a spring where the crossmember is. Also you should be able to make a very lite trigger pull if you use a 1/4 coil spring.
 

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Allied, I think you just solved a mystery for my trigger setup. I'm building my first kit, and it's a USGI 30-06 A4. I've gathered all the parts for my build except the trigger/sear. I had all my internals machined recently, and now that they're back, I'm getting ready to order a t&s. The problem I've been having is that my lockframe doesn't look like the ones in the tutorial pictures. It's a casting, and there's a big square shaped bar across the space where the pictures normally show the trigger return spring/screw. It sounds like I might have an A6 lockframe? I couldn't figure out how to make the Karma trigger setup work without lots of work, but from what you describe, I could use the WLA trigger setup as is, and use the 1/4" coil spring for the return. Will that work for me, or do I need to make other changes as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You...

If your gonna use the WLA T&S from militarygunsupply.com you need to send your barrel extension back and have a small section taken out like Allied posted above otherwise you will not be able to install your internals in your receiver... That was the only modification I had to make...
 

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Lenb You are correct, that is the exact situation I am talking about. You will need to relief cut some of the material off the lockframe though to make the trigger work. The cuts will need to be towards the rear of the lockframe were the casting crosses and were a timing screw usually is, and the second relief cut will be on the front lower side of the crossmember on the lock frame. The lower side of the crossmember only needs to be relief cut if the casting is not flush. I will try to get some pictures up so you can understand what I am talking about. Glad to be of assistance.
 

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Great info, Kali, and Allied! I'm glad you guys posted here, as I was really baffled by my t&s issue, and probably would have posted a question on it soon. When I get home, I'm going to check out the parts and your advice. I'll probably do the relief machining myself, so any pictures or dimensions will be very helpful, Allied. I guess I can also order my WLA t&s now and get one step closer to completing my build. Thanks for the great advice, guys, it's good to have access to such a wealth of knowledge on this forum.
 
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