[Gatekeeper]

I really don't think this is machine gun related but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and cross my fingers. I'm hoping someone here has seen a leather case like this before. We are unable to identify what it is or more to the point, what it was used for. It is marked "Rock Island Arsenal" "1918" and leather inspector intials "T.C.C.". There are also some intial markings on the back of the case either "JAH" and "MAD" or it could be "M2D". Either way we have had it in the collection for quite some time and have yet to be able to identify it. Years ago someone said it was to hold a Thompson machine gun magazine drum but that isn't correct. (doesn't fit any of my TSMG magazines). I'm more inclined to think it is artillery in nature and held an instrument of somekind.

Here are some images:





Inside:




Backside open:



Close up of markings on side:



Close up of markings on outside bottom: (sorry this one is blury)



This last image was taken with a ruler to help give an idea of size of the case.





Any help will be appreciated. Nothing like a little game of "Stump the Curator".....

Gatekeeper

 

[frazer42]

My first guess is surveying equipment, ala compass top transit gizmo. Or some random artillery tool case. J

 

[kkkriverrats]

Beats me, fraizer may be right. Whatever it is its like new

 

[frazer42]

You got your tripod and chain and five miles to negotiate. This thing has a sling. Meant to be carried. Transit base or maybe reflector top for tripod?

 

[frazer42]

Its the case for a beanbag ashtray for an officers baggage wagon dash. Ha!

 

[Armorer]

I have one of those also and have had it for about forty year or more and I have no idea what it is for. I was also told it was for a Thompson drum magazine and quickly discovered it was not. Mine has no markings other than the letter "F" in three places on the side without the buckle. Other than the lack of markings it is identical to the one shown.

 

[Lucky#13]

I think this is a two-way game; Stump the Curator and Stump the Forum Members too! I have no clue. A bit fancy for a mess kit case, but you never know! I think the initial suggestion from frazer42 is most likely.

 

[steamer]

Like this ww1 one? http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mFU-eYZACZQgE1Imv3dxpew.jpg
Rock Island Aresenal Round Brown Leather Military Case Marked 1918 WW I Rare
still looking
steamer

 

[steamer]

Think I found the answer....http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52678-wwi-era-hard-leather-round-carry-case/
or maybe not....
Someone here might be able to confirm this

steamer

 

[toolmanm203]

Great work steamer I think you are on the right track so now do you want to be the guy who breaks the news to this seller :tongue:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311302411042?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[steamer]

I'm not positive I'm right but I believe a Tommy drum will not fit based on what Gatekeeper said.

I would like to confirm what it was exactly but so far I'm with Rollin, I have no idea.

Feel free to let him know. The last one I contacted on ebay didn't change anything. In fact they are still selling the part as a 1919a4 part.

This is our chance to help gatekeeper for once so I will keep looking...

Steamer

 

[steamer]

some one already told him...

Q: Hi, just wanted to try and figure out what type gun magazine this case belongs to. It surely couldn't be for a 1921 Thompson SMG, as it was made in 1921, and WWI ended in 1918. I'm guessing it's a hotchkiss case or a Lewis machine gun drum mag. case. Still very rare, and I've never seen one !! Have a Good Memorial Day!!! Jim May-24-15
A: Hello Jim: I buy most of my Ebay items direct through local CT, Mass, & R.I. estates. Most items are antiques and quite unique. I do not have any additional information on this c. 1918 WW I item. It is quite well made! Best regards and Thanks for your question, Daniel.

Steamer

 

[Mr.Maim]

A similar discussion went on at the US Militaria Forum in 2009. No answer there either.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52678-wwi-era-hard-leather-round-carry-case/


EDIT: DUPE. Apologies.

 

[Armorer]

some one already told him...

Q: Hi, just wanted to try and figure out what type gun magazine this case belongs to. It surely couldn't be for a 1921 Thompson SMG, as it was made in 1921, and WWI ended in 1918. I'm guessing it's a hotchkiss case or a Lewis machine gun drum mag. case. Still very rare, and I've never seen one !! Have a Good Memorial Day!!! Jim May-24-15
A: Hello Jim: I buy most of my Ebay items direct through local CT, Mass, & R.I. estates. Most items are antiques and quite unique. I do not have any additional information on this c. 1918 WW I item. It is quite well made! Best regards and Thanks for your question, Daniel.

Steamer

Way to small for a Lewis drum (been there also)

 

[Gatekeeper]

Not the correct answer but was helpful...

Think I found the answer....http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52678-wwi-era-hard-leather-round-carry-case/
or maybe not....
Someone here might be able to confirm this

steamer

I looked for the TM that is referenced in the post on the other forum and of course I didn't have it. I looked at the TM that would have been close (TM9-1527 Gunner's quadrants and clinometer info) and that TM pointed me to look at SNL F series publications. ORD 3 SNL F-1 "Fire Control Major Items and Major Combinations for Use with Small Arms, Automatic Guns, Mortars and Field Artillery" had an image for a prismatic compass M1918 but not for the case. However a case was listed as an auxillary item and it had a drawing number of 38-10-100. I looked to see if I had that drawing and I did.

Here it is:


As you can see it is not even close.

While looking at other 38-10 drawings I noticed that there were a lot of carrying cases. I even found a carrying case for a clinometer (which was another possible suggestion for the unknown case). Here is the drawing for the carrying case for clinometer MKII.



Again, not close. So I decided to take a look at all the 38 series drawings, one by one.

Low and behold..I found the mystery case.

Folks, feast your eyes on "Hand Fuze Setter Case, Model 1913 for 31 Second Combination Fuze" original drawing dated 2-12-1913.



Revision 2 dated 1-12-1915 has added "for 31 Sec and 45 Sec combination Fuze Setters" along with what types of guns this would have been used with (31 Sec for 3.8" howitzers and guns, 4.7 in howitzers and guns and 6 inch howitzer. 45 sec fuze for 3.6 in, and 5 in guns and 7 inch Howitzers). See for yourself:



So now, not only do I know what the case was for, I also know with which larger piece of artillery it was used with. Ain't research grand?! FYI latest drawing I have is rev 8 dated 12-31-1930.

I just want to say thanks to all those (especially steamer) that put me on the right track. Sometimes that is all I need to find the good stuff...right Rollin and Charlie?

Thanks,
Gatekeeper

 

[kkkriverrats]

Jo

Great find! You have access to likely the only copies of these drawings remaining. Its all there finding it is the hard part.

 

[Armorer]

I was kind of surprised the item did not have the drawing number someplace like most items did although the one you show has more markings than mine which had virtually no markings.

I ran a copy of the drawing and put it inside the case for future generations to know exactly what it was for. Thanks Gatekeeper for tracking that down.

 

[Lucky#13]

So now, not only do I know what the case was for, I also know with which larger piece of artillery it was used with. Ain't research grand?! FYI latest drawing I have is rev 8 dated 12-31-1930.

I just want to say thanks to all those (especially steamer) that put me on the right track. Sometimes that is all I need to find the good stuff...right Rollin and Charlie?

Thanks,
Gatekeeper

Jo,

The amount of stuff you have turned up on your own, let alone what Charlie, I, Rick L. and others have spurred you on to dig up, is just amazing. Remember what I said when I first made contact, all those years ago? You totally ROCK!

And hat's off to steamer for steering this time around!

 

[L999here]

WTG,Jodie...!!!

Rollin is correct. The amount of info about our hobby and associated items....like the 1917 Machine Gun Cart series...that you have been able to research if absolutely fantastic...!! This history would probably have been lost forever if not for your intervention. Well done and keep up the good work. You are truly a most valuable asset to the history of RIA and the US military. I will be forever grateful....

 

[steamer]

What a team effort! This is great to see the prints of the case. And to top it off it has been identified as to what guns. Thanks Jodie.
I second what has been said.
Steamer