[Shattered]

Got an interesting call from a buddy today. He's considering whether or not it would be viable to produce a 1919 full auto blank gun made to use a propriatory blank cartridge. This would carry the same legal status as a starter pistol, i.e. a non-gun, basically.

What do you think? A gun outwardly non-distinguishable from an original 1919 A4 that fires blanks in full auto at approx 600 rounds per minute? Do you think this type of gun could sell for $3K? Considering the Japanese copies of MP-40 and MP-44 F/A blank guns go for almost $4-5 K?

Lets hear it.

 

[blkbd]

The hard part is designing a cartridge that can not be used in a normal gun without a lot of mods, And to make it belt fed adds to the problem. And said design has to be ATF approved. I would stick with the gas gun approach of Oxy/Acel .

 

[Shattered]

He has a cartridge design in mind, as I said it was to be a special blank. If the interest is out there I have NO DOUBT this guy can get ATF approval of the design. He's looking to see if the interest is out there. It would be a natural for re-enactors but perfectly legal for anyone who wanted to make some noise...

 

[Rory]

and blanks that are not sooo pricey that 600 rounds per minute would not kill the owner

 

[Shattered]

He has a cartridge design in mind, as I said it was to be a special blank. If the interest is out there I have NO DOUBT this guy can get ATF approval of the design. He's looking to see if the interest is out there. It would be a natural for re-enactors but perfectly legal for anyone who wanted to make some noise...

ps... I'm not talking about some fly by night operation here. If I were to drop a name, there isn't a sole here (or any C-3 gun board) who wouldn't recognize the name but I won't until he decides whether or not it's a go.



Hmmm how did this happen? It was supposed to be an edit to post #3

 

[frazer42]

SS Supplyroom

Contact the guys at SSSupplyroom. They have the only legal US made F/A blank only guns for sale. I think they are in the 2000/2500 range. Ive shot both the MP40 and the PPSH41, pretty dang cool. They load backwards, the bolt is in front of the mag well and actuates towards the user. Gas escapes via tubing to the muzzle end. They cock forward as well, kinda hard to get used to but it works. This funky arrangement is the reason for the approval. Jap guns use snap-caps and they look cool but they suck compared to these. I've had more fun with an old school cap gun. Also, not one single part of the gun can be real(actual 1919 parts). Frazer42

 

[Dinadin]

It would be interesting depending on the price.

 

[Hail Mary]

Would there be flames coming out of the booster area for night time affects?

And the price of the blanks would be a big factor; as well as the possibility of DIY blanks.

 

[Shattered]

Good stuff, guys... keep'em coming. I'll try to get specific answers to any questions....

 

[blackrifles]

Shattered,

There used to be a full-auto M-16 clone (Japanese?) that fired blanks, damn thing looked so real (Colt gray and correct stampings) it fooled a lot of people, I remember it loaded the blanks backwards and chambered/fired toward operator, that was the only way it could be ATF approved and imported. Very neat and now very rare, I think the last one I saw sold for around $1,500 in 2002.

I must say a full-auto blank firing 1919 would be very appealing, you'll just have to figure out a way to hide the feeding of the "backwards" blanks, maybe RH feed that's hidden by chute, so a dummy belt can hang out the LH side, perhaps port the gas through a tube so you have muzzle flash.. you with me here?

 

[woodsman]

Up hill battle?

Hey there shattered, Your friend will have an uphill battle. You can purchase a full auto rate gas fired. Yes flames come out the front gun of the gun for 1699.00. This is the current marketplace price. I would not want to get into having to use propriatary ammo in a replica when. I can get flash and bang for a lot less and no added expense in ammo. Look up Irac Inc. They have been making these for years and years. The other side of the coin is that you can buy a semi auto in the 1000.00 range and fire blanks out of it. Between those two I don't think the price your friend proposes will fly. There are units made by (Air Sharp) that have full auto rates that are great for reenacting and plinking in your basement. I don't vremember their price but it seems to me they were less than a semi build. Hope this helps. I have been through this marketing thing with quite a few products and the market is NOT a friendly place to any product that has a high price.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

Some reenactors, like me dream of such a gun.

The blanks need to LOOK close to .30-06... They need to work in links and belts... and they need to face the right direction for pete's sake!

 

[Shattered]

Some reenactors, like me dream of such a gun.

The blanks need to LOOK close to .30-06... They need to work in links and belts... and they need to face the right direction for pete's sake!

From what I've heard, he plans to make all your dreams come true. All he needs is the slightest push from a bunch of your buddies to make it happen. Go talk to your friends in the Association. It'll happen if the demand is there.

 

[tommygunner06]

What is the cost range that he is looking at? Price of the blanks?No reenactor will buy until they see it and know $$$ amount. If the guy has a patent in no one can "copy" it so he does not have to keep it a secret. Also ATF approval letter because it will be needed on military bases. I wish I could make a M1 Thompson to fire the 8mm blanks,,that would be a BIG hit. The 8mm blanks are very loud in my blank .45 . BTW the blanks face forward. I was thinking to put the barrel in a airsoft thompson and some how modify the mag to hold the blanks in line(20). Grease gun would be cool too.

 

[Shattered]

What is the cost range that he is looking at? Price of the blanks?No reenactor will buy until they see it and know $$$ amount. If the guy has a patent in no one can "copy" it so he does not have to keep it a secret. Also ATF approval letter because it will be needed on military bases. I wish I could make a M1 Thompson to fire the 8mm blanks,,that would be a BIG hit. The 8mm blanks are very loud in my blank .45 . BTW the blanks face forward. I was thinking to put the barrel in a airsoft thompson and some how modify the mag to hold the blanks in line(20). Grease gun would be cool too.

There's no requirement for the blanks to point backwards. He was looking at a possible price of 3K. He wasn't asking for commitments, just wanted to know how many people would actually be interested in such a gun.

The 8mm blanks in a Thompson is definitely doable. What are the size of the blanks compared to say a 9mm Luger round? Take a pic.

 

[pfarber]

Not for $3k.

SSRoom makes their guns for $2k and they sell well.

I would not go that high. Unless the blanks were less than $0.20 per shot. Again, compared to ssroom they are about $0.28 per shot.

I doubt that a brass case of rifle size is gonna get that low.

I would not care if the internals are the same.. make it look like a -a4 and optionally an -a6 and let it use belts. I could not care how the internals work.

Also flames at night.. who cares.

My price/pain point would be $2k MAX and $0.20 per shot.

 

[pfarber]

I could not edit the post above.. the server kept timing out.. heres what I meant to say:

There are no F/A commercial blank guns that DO NOT point backwards. Even the cap fire guns point backwards. Only the semi auto blanks point forward.

 

[pfarber]

For blanks using steel or brass cases will also probably cost to much. Maybe an anodized Aluminum or molded plastic/nylon case of a brass color? For something that you will leave behind (the case) I would not want to pay to much for that.

Not being a C-3 all I can do is put pencil to paper and throw out ideas.

 

[MikeWilliamson]

The problem comes if it is possible to drill out the barrel, replace the barrel, or otherwise make it fire ANY real ammo, including rimfire.

At that point, ATF will consider it "Readily convertible" and send your friend to jail for 10 years.

the reason for rearward firing is to avoid this.

 

[pfarber]

You do not need a barrel to be FA. The def of FA only includes more than one shot per trigger pull. Has nothing to do with accuracy.

I think AL or nylon/plastic bullets are the way to go. They just need to hold a charge and a primer long enough to go bang.