[alamosaddles]

Since the mod wont lock or delete, title is gone.....

How do you like them apples? We were talking in another thread about getting arrested if an officer asks you a question and you refuse to answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH_qVJfaYZA

This example is wayyyy over the top, unreasonable, unexcusable, abusive, out of line and criminal in my opinion. This gentleman was tasered, arrested and charged because he did not sign a traffic citation and he walked away from the officer. This officer should be charged with assult and battery, official misconduct, breach of the peace and anything else that the state can tack on. I'd love to know at what point the officer felt "threatened" to have to unholster his taser and shoot this man in the back. As a police officer, I had many people refuse to sign a citation. You simply write on the ticket that the motorist refused to sign it, you don't violate them like this guy did, and arrest them.

What do you guys think about it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH_qVJfaYZA

 

[ZoLtAr1]

Pitiful. And the cop lied to his fellow officer on the tape.
He needs to be fired, and the county/state sued for this blatent misuse of police powers.
Good thing for the internet, so it can't be buried.

 

[Hillbilly]

I gotta go with the cop on this one.

 

[KABAR2]

My first question would be was the 40mph sign the first one he was coming to?
if so he may not have seen it as the patrol car would have blocked it as it moved to the side of the road, also his attention would have been on the patrol car and what it was doing rather than on the sign in front of it.

It seems the Taser has replaced the rubber billy club of old, as there are more and more times we are hearing about this. Did the officer act in a reasonable manner? with the traffic noise it is hard to completely hear what transpired between him and the citizen he decided to arrest, but it would appear he had a NO-TOLERANCE policy for disobeying his commands, If he or any other officer forced me to sign any document I would sign it with UNDER DURESS ! added,
brought before a judge, I believe the signature would be disavowed by that wording. As I would testify and the tape would show I was threatened with arrest or being physically harmed for not signing it.


And Yes I believe the officer over stepped his duty. and abused this mans Constitutional rights.

 

[CETME1]

Heard about this. When I finally saw it I wondered what all the bru -ha -ha was about.
Its pretty simple, if you don't sign a ticket you have to go to jail or see a judge or commissioner. There's none of this "just walking away" crap. The suspect committed a crime (albeit a minor one), and then placed himself in a bad situation by trying to blow off the cop.
If the suspect starts walking away you have to stop him. Suspect chose force and he got it. Actually hurt him less than a good clubbing to the head would of.
This guy wont sue or complain when an attorney tells him he was in the wrong. If he does sue he wont win any money, if he files a false complaint he will be charged (felony in most parts) and if he continues to slander the cop then the cop has every right to sue him.
He should of screamed "don't taz me bro". Cop would have laughed long enough for him to make a quick get a way.

 

[Old CooT]

In louisiana,.. you don't have to sign a ticket,.. the officer can write on the ticket that you refused to sign and give him a copy with that written on it, or call for a back up officer to witness the refusal.

Also,. you dont sign when you run a red light and the camera gets you and you get a ticket in the mail,.. your license # is your signature.

 

[FN74]

Cop is completely in the right on this. I don't have a taser and he was non-compliant, he'd gotten pepper sprayed by me most likely. If the driver had just signed the ticket, he'd been on his way, and able to fight it out in court. Good for the cop.

 

[FN74]

In louisiana,.. you don't have to sign a ticket,.. the officer can write on the ticket that you refused to sign and give him a copy with that written on it, or call for a back up officer to witness the refusal.

Also,. you dont sign when you run a red light and the camera gets you and you get a ticket in the mail,.. your license # is your signature.

I was a cop in louisiana for over 3 years and we arrested everyone that refused to sign the ticket. Furthermore, if they were from a non-compact state and got a driving infraction they were arrested as well.

 

[phalanx]

Maybe i am wrong here ,but years ago i didn't sign a ticket because i wanted to fight it in court ,i did and i won ,the speed limit sign had blown over and the cop didn't know it. =,no biggie .I thought by not signing the citation ,it only meant you were going to contest it. I mean it isn't like at that point they don't know who you are ,and what you drive. OK ,the LEO ,did his job ,but did he really have to go that far ? especially how he was speaking to the guys wife and son after being horrified seeing daddy get shocked. Even the other LEO was sort of was acting like he wanted his buddy to calm down. Yes the driver was being a jerk also ,but if he was required to sign ,then why didn't the Officer explain that to him ? and if arrested why was he not read his rights ?Some of us may be under the false impression that you don't have to sign a speeding ticket. It sort of looked like they were both being hot heads , maybe a little pepper spray would have been better ,then explain to the driver the law .

 

[Old CooT]

I was a cop in louisiana for over 3 years and we arrested everyone that refused to sign the ticket. Furthermore, if they were from a non-compact state and got a driving infraction they were arrested as well.

They also used to keep your license til you either paid the ticket or settled in court,. now they give you the ticket and your license.

I'm not big on tickets,.. I drive like I'm supposed to.. I've mellowed in my old age..

 

[franks71vw]

That cop had no control of the situation he took alot on assumptions if tat couple were up to no good he would have been dead. I just think the driver screwed up in not listening to what the cop wanted him to say. However, again not sure if that was his home state but like others have said, some states you dont have to sign a ticket. In that position, any cop if its an arrestable offense, should tell the driver that by law in this particular state he must sign or go in. Many times, situations can just be talked down.

 

[blackrifles]

Looks like two idiots butted heads on this one, both were in the wrong, let the court figure it out. SOP around here is you don't sign the ticket, you go to jail, our citations state "Signing is not an admission of guilt".

I don't believe in tickets, I utterly despise paperwork, would rather give a polite warning/butt-chewing and send you on your way, seems diplomacy has caved into PC/revenue crowd, the older cops here do NOT like writing tickets.

One of the funniest vids I've ever seen was a guy cussing and raising hell on a TN HP, patrolman was polite and professional while citing him for speeding, which made the driver go into a bigger rant, driver signed ticket and peeled away. What you didn't see was further down the road, another THP got him for speeding/reckless driving not 5 minutes later, hauled his ranting butt to jail, clearly this driver had severe mental probs and never had a good spanking.

 

[BruceA4]

Pitiful. And the cop lied to his fellow officer on the tape.
He needs to be fired, and the county/state sued for this blatent misuse of police powers.
Good thing for the internet, so it can't be buried.

The trooper knows FULL WELL that he has a dash cam and everything he says or is in the view of the cam is being recorded! This kid was a " typical " disrespect youth of today who got exactly what he deserved! If Utah law states that if you refuse to sign a traffic citation you will be sited for refusing & then arrested, then he got what he was supposed too!
Arguing with a police officer on the side of the road and refusing " lawful " commands is although minor in nature but obviously an arrestable offense in Utah! All you anti-coppers should take into account that this trooper for the most part is solo and backup is miles away and he has every right to protect himself. The kid started this whole event by arguing and refusing to sign and playing roadside lawyer! This is a perfect example of where we are going in this country!!!!!!

 

[panzerfaust]

Right on BlackRifles.

Yep, sure looked like two "control freaks" uhm . . ."freaking out?' Audio is pretty tough, but initially seems the LEO asks him politely 3 times to produce his license/registration. Can tell right away we have a civilian that is NOT gonna go easy or cooperate. Walking away? Dumb move. Taser? Dumb move. Getting up and approaching the officer from behind. REALLY dumb move. Once the LEO is talking to the wife, explaining the situation, he seems pretty calm and rational. Call it "quid pro quo" and the driver should be grateful, could have been an ASP baton, or the old "MagLight Shampoo."

 

[Old CooT]

That cop had no control of the situation he took alot on assumptions if tat couple were up to no good he would have been dead. I just think the driver screwed up in not listening to what the cop wanted him to say. However, again not sure if that was his home state but like others have said, some states you dont have to sign a ticket. In that position, any cop if its an arrestable offense, should tell the driver that by law in this particular state he must sign or go in. Many times, situations can just be talked down.

Frank,.. I wonder who let that driver out of the idiot farm,.. I think he's a applicant for a Darwin Award too

I think the Officer should have reminded the driver that he was on videotape before he warned him he was going to get tasered..

Maybe the warning of his videotaping ending up as evidence in court would have made that nimrod think twice and obey, but I doubt it.

I could understand a drunk acting like that, but I guess idiots will be idiots.

 

[BruceA4]

My first question would be was the 40mph sign the first one he was coming to?
if so he may not have seen it as the patrol car would have blocked it as it moved to the side of the road, also his attention would have been on the patrol car and what it was doing rather than on the sign in front of it.

It seems the Taser has replaced the rubber billy club of old, as there are more and more times we are hearing about this. Did the officer act in a reasonable manner? with the traffic noise it is hard to completely hear what transpired between him and the citizen he decided to arrest, but it would appear he had a NO-TOLERANCE policy for disobeying his commands, If he or any other officer forced me to sign any document I would sign it with UNDER DURESS ! added,
brought before a judge, I believe the signature would be disavowed by that wording. As I would testify and the tape would show I was threatened with arrest or being physically harmed for not signing it.

Signing the summons " is not " an ommission of guilt and states that on the summons! The law does not allow you to disobey or argue your point on the side of the highway! That is why we have courts! The trooper is by himself with potential backup miles away with a driver arguing & refusing commands! The fact that his wife & child were in the SUV means " nothing " as anyone else could of been in the back of that SUV with a weapon! His wife could of had a weapon. He is solo with two people refusing his commands. Just because this particular situation looks " rosy " to you street lawyers doesn't mean it is all that appears! These people could of just robbed and killed the store owner at the last gas station!!!!
I never had a taser on my department but when this driver walked away from me " for instance " and began to put his hand in his pocket I would of either drew my service pistol or bull-rushed him and knocked him to the ground! All you anti-coppers can watch that video until the cows come home but not one of you can feel exactly what that trooper was feeling at that exact moment in time!


And Yes I believe the officer over stepped his duty. and abused this mans Constitutional rights.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

 

[BruceA4]

Signing the summons " is not " an ommission of guilt and states that on the summons! The law does not allow you to disobey or argue your point on the side of the highway! That is why we have courts! The trooper is by himself with potential backup miles away with a driver arguing & refusing commands! The fact that his wife & child were in the SUV means " nothing " as anyone else could of been in the back of that SUV with a weapon! His wife could of had a weapon. He is solo with two people refusing his commands. Just because this particular situation looks " rosy " to you street lawyers doesn't mean it is all that appears! These people could of just robbed and killed the store owner at the last gas station!!!!
I never had a taser on my department but when this driver walked away from me " for instance " and began to put his hand in his pocket I would of either drew my service pistol or bull-rushed him and knocked him to the ground! All you anti-coppers can watch that video until the cows come home but not one of you can feel exactly what that trooper was feeling at that exact moment in time!
THIS WAS my answer to the last post....I side with the trooper

BruceA4

 

[CaliBoundAR15]

Yeah, sorry for all the "haters" out there, but he was clearly in the right on this one. Could the situation have been handled differently? Yeah, maybe. But it's always easier to "Monday morning quarterback" a situation after watching it on tape than it is in real life during a stressful situation. Plus, once you make the desicion to arrest someone, there is no going back and you use the force neccessary to affect the arrest. I mean come on guys! It's just a taser. It only hurts for about 5 seconds..... Courtrooms are the place for arguing, not the side of the road.

 

[Lucky#13]

Well, being a bit tired of all these type of threads, I am not going to bother watching the video or posting an opinion on who did what right or wrong. I know that, as a motorist who has a LOT of experience on the side of the highway chatting it up with police officers and highway patrol, that it is not wise to argue or to have an attitude. I do know that it is a certain arrest here in California if you refuse to sign a ticket. It is very clearly stated on the paper, and officers have always stated verbally in my cases, that signing is not an admission of guilt. Chances are that, if the guy had just been pleasant and calmly explained that a speed limit sign was not visible due to being blocked or whatever, he might well have gotten away with a warning and that would have been that. I can't tell you how many times I have survived with just a warning and not been cited. Of course, I long ago lost count of the number of tickets I have received in my 30+ years of driving. Dozens would be putting it mildly. The local and state guys made lots of revenue off me for many years, mostly when I was on the motorcycle all the time. But I have seen the best and the worst of police attitudes, from officers with a great sense of humor and pleasant demeanors, to ones who thought they were God and could lie with a straight face in court.

I have had a CHP lieutenant, red in the face and yelling, with two other units and officers, come at me like I was deliberately evading, threaten me with arrest and yet I walked away with nothing but a speeding ticket because I calmly convinced them that I was not aware of being chased, that I pulled over immediately upon my first contact with the third unit, and I was obviously cool headed and not on an adrenaline high. The lieutenant was mad as hell, the second pursuing officer was claiming that I would be nothing but "hamburger" if I fell off at such speeds, and the third guy, who I was already pulling over for when he blasted "if you try to run I'm gonna ram you" on his PA, was responding that I would survive intact as I was wearing leathers. Now if I had the slightest attitude or resisted in any way, I would have been the white Rodney King, the way two of those guys were so on edge. And I would have been asking for it. If I had a video of that whole scene, the contrast between the three officers would have been hysterical to watch. I had a couple minutes to win over the guy who pulled me over before the others arrived. I understood immediately that they thought they were in pursuit of an evader. Though he initially threatened to "ram" me, that one officer became my defender of sorts against the adrenaline pumped pair who were trying to catch me. I just calmly explained myself, without denying I was WAAAY over the limit, and a good attitude won the day. We all went home with no scrapes or bruises.

 

[pfarber]

Why didn't the cop just hand him the ticket and drive away? What good comes out of using less than lethal force for a traffic ticket (no such thing an non-lethal force re: taser).

The cop knows that the camera is there and it is evidence. The audio would clearly state that the driver refused to sign.

BUT THATS NOT MANLY ENOUGH FOR COPS. WHERE IS THE BAR ROOM BOASTIING THAT I LET A MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSE GO?

Cop on a power trip, tasered an INNOCENT CITIZEN.

Tasers are used WAY to much.. cause cops know they can get away with it for 'officer safety'. BS. If you do not feel safe then call for backup.

To all you ppl who get on your knees for cops, let me know haw that taser feels when you get it for a minor ticket.

The driver was was guilty of NOTHING. Only a jury (or judge) can determine that.