[alamosaddles]

I am wondering. With all the hype about going green, using less fuel and hybrid cars....

Why is there no one selling a completely electric car, that does NOT have to be plugged in to be recharged?

Why can't somone make a car, that runs on batteries, with something like four fat juicy alternators at each wheel, so when you are driving along you are at the same time recharging the batteries? That would give an unrestricted service distance, and allow you to go cross country without having to plug a damn thing in.

I am not smart enough to figure it out or to understand it, I'm hoping that someone with more intelligence can enlighten me.

 

[Rory]

the answer to that is in physics. you can't have a net zero. you will change some energy into heat, noise whatever. so the alaternators will not/ can not make upo the same as lost

r

 

[franks71vw]

Ahhh my young apprentice, sit and read about the laws of thermodynamic and the laws of conservation of matter. You will go from to smiley with light bulb over head... Its that easy, you start getting into Net energy, we have alot of oil trapped in Shale in the US, but it would almost take a gallon of Haji oil to extract a gallon of shale oil thus net energy being ZERO. The thing is that big proven oil reserves the size of saudi hasnt been found. Sweet crude is the best sour sucks, so you would need to add more energy to the process in order to remove crap from sour crude. Remember that unless these battery operated cars/hydrogen cars, get their energy from a sustainable renewable source its a dead end. You can prolong getting to the dead end like converting every car into a hybrid or multifuel engines etc but remember where plastics come from and the many other lovely by product of crude. Me personally I think finish the dam war. Go out to the Nevada dessert and spend the money you would in the war and make Thermal Towers, then offset between offshore windmill and more High Capacity,"quieter" windmill in the NW section of the country.. and produce hydrogen gas, burn that. Have a decentralized energy system so you wont be have to fear the grid going to hell and taking everyone with it and change from a supply side to a demand side energy production. If I dont make sense its cause I am starting a cold and really dont feel up and at it but you all will understand. Nuclear is an option but what in hell do you do with the spent fuel rods besides making a bomb with it??? storing these rods has to suck. No one really cares so much about the desert so build out there. Clean coal is not the way to go, kinda like says compact florecent light bulbs are better then incandecent, but CFL have Mercury, doh, even though the majority of the electricity made in the US is by coal I still dont think its the way to go. I would rather have an increase in my taxes because they are doing this, then because of some stupid spending budget crapola that DC comes up with . Go ask the Kali people why in hell they had to get rid of a law that by 1999 or so 30% of the cars had to be electric.. (I think the figures are correct if not would have to look them up) I can lend you a nice book that sums all of these issues. I think and hope to have answered it in a nut shell and oh my truck gets on average 16mpg weights 12000lb and some smaller lighter truck powered with big v8 get less and yes I have a v8 400 cubic inches of black Soot spewing diesel... Wait till you see my Detroit diesel hybrid conversion on my 88 cheyenne. Estimate about 30 mpg top speed 62-70mph 3000rpm baby beep beep move out the way....lol nyquil is kickin in

 

[phalanx]

Rory is right ,even if the alternators were spinning from the effect of the movement of the car and not reliant on energy from the main Battery.
The drag on any movement of the car would be restricted by what the alternators needed to have going to the DC side .
The fields in an alternator like that could be very powerful when trying to keep a battery up that is also running the car and the traction motor.
It could be like having 4,20 HP load bank testers on your car ,or driving with a strong park brake still on .
Rory's comment about ZERO, at one point will happen ,at one point the car isn't going to be going fast enough because the battery is dieing off ,and the Alternators are not spinning at maximum RPM to deliver any charge.
Its been tryed ,One of the big problems is ,Battery's ,Technology has to get better on them ,above all.

 

[phalanx]

Here it is ,i had to dig it out of an old book i have.
Electrical energy , in order to remain stable and constant
Under any given load application .
1 - has got to be produced by another source using that of equal or higher energy proportions.
2 - This is normally measured in Horse Power ,converted to Kilo Watt ,allowing for a unity power factor.
3 - In most all applications, the electrical energy can exceed that of the ability of the driving energy source for brief periods of time.
4 -The driving energy source needs to be able to produce/consume enough energy to compete ,thus being larger ,a 40%,load to 60% driver ratio is normal.

 

[47lincsled]

energy ?

Just the other night on the news there was a story about making ethanol out of prairie grass, they claim they can get 80% more fuel from an acre of prairie grass then you can from corn, but who's going to make money from prairie grass, defintely not the oil companys or the big Agra bussiness people, so it won't go any wheres till some one figures out how to make money on it, there are so many rumors about the 100 mpg cars you have to wonder if any of them were true, the way the big three auto maker and the oil companies are in bed togather it just makes me wonder, I found some old 60's car magazines that had some fuel mileage test, a slant 6 chyrsler was getting 26 MPG, thats still a 4500 pound car that would seat 5-6 people, most mid size cars today aren't getting that mileage. I believe if as much money went into making an electric car or hydrogen or any number of alternative that is being wasted on global warming we could have the answers. It all come back to money, like just about every thing else. Excuse me I have to ad another layer of tin foil to my hat!

 

[Roc Rat]

How about an AIR Powered Car????? I saw this yesterday on my home page,, http://www.theaircar.com/

Problem is, you have to use electricity to run a compressor to fill-er-up. Untill they perfect ambient temperature super conductors, we're all on a downward slope. Gonna be a long time till the next batch of crude is ready.

If you can't grow it,, it has to be mined.

 

[Pirate]

the easiest solution is just go and kick the arabs asses and take the frigging oil!

 

[Rory]

frank aren't you in to the bio diesel stuff?
i seem to remember someone trying to use that as a slam against you... moron.

my take on all of this is that we are far too dependent on petroleum based products. plastics, oil, consumption in general is far too high. some don't care either way and some are unrealistic with the overall expectations. i am a fan of the happy medium.

and by the way all the ass napkins that have a big issue against the "green" movement: what the hell is wrong with you. how can reducing pollution and waste be a bad thing?! higher efficiency houses, lower energy costs less dirty air and water... how are any of these bad? other than of course the dirty scowls from all of the people when they see you driving a dirt spewing suv that looks as though it has never seen ground worth of a vehicle of that size or nature.


r

 

[Guest]

the green movement

rory i agree with you about higher efficiency products and saving energy. i use compact flourescent because it saves money and i have only replaced 1 ever they just keep on going.

where i disagree is when someone tells me i have to pay more for green, or it becomes a mandate. i drive a full size truck. as long as i can afford it im going to keep driving it. i want to know where someone gets off telling me what i can or cant drive?

this nonsense about we all have to make sacrafices smacks of the saying "communism is sharing the misery equally"
maybe we should not worry about gloabal warming because it will help cancel out nuclear winter

 

[Shattered]

Maybe a miniature ZPM would work out.... now to find a Stargate.

 

[Rory]

well some mandates benefit the consumer as well
think of building codes. more insulation, better windows
sure you will have to pay a little more from the beginning
but you will reap the benefits in the long run regardless.
instead of thinking of it as just another upgrade that you
really can't afford right now especially when you want the
jacuzzi in the back it is now a base model so you don't have
to make that decision. i see good and bad even in this scenario
but am trying to lean more toward the good.

had an old chemistry book from the 50s that had a factory dumping
green goo into a nearby pond. all industrial and bladerunner looking
on that side and slowly "prettied up" by the other side of the image.
the title said "the solution to pollution is dilution" although the essence
of this statement is true the consequences are pretty bad. like when
you turn that pond in to a super fund site.

i just hear the talk radio guys going on about the green movement
and how bad it is. it just irritates the hell out of me. as the base reasoning
behind this seems like a great idea. keep the outdoors cleaner. you
ever been to a third world country and had to breath their dirty stinking
air? makes you appreciate some of our rules and fear some of our leaders
who woudl squash those rules *cough*bush*cough*

r

 

[Mouse]

the easiest solution is just go and kick the arabs asses and take the frigging oil!

Finally a voice of reason!
A light shining through the darkness if you will....

 

[Flat Broke Dave W]

Hi Rory,
Don't get me wrong, as I agree with you on many things.
I actually do environmental on a day to day basis at a major corporation (for about a year now).

The problem is always in the degree to which we take things.
Building codes do benefit the consumer in many cases and they are typically the least that has to be done. Would they still be good if, "for the greater good" we mandated that every house had to have enough solar panels on it to be self sustaining? What if it made the house cost $500,000 extra? It would still be good for the environment. What if we mandated that all houses have to be earth sheltered homes (my preference), or even earthships?

Another example, our company doesn't want to send materials to the landfill as it contaminates the ground water and is of little use until it starts generating methane. To combat this, we ship much of our stuff (about six semi loads) per month to an incenerator that is 600 miles away. We gain the energy reclamation of incenerating the waste but look at how much carbon dioxide we pumped into the atmosphere between trucking and burning.
A good idea gone awry.

The big reason is costs and lifestyle changes versus benefits.
What are you willing to give up to effect the change?
Some people have different levels they are willing to go. I am all for environmental until it costs me extra cash. (good mileage car...sure, paying extra for "green energy" from my coal burning plant...nope)
Remember, the best thing we can do for the environment is to die and earth would prefer this as quickly as possible.


Summary: To use your own words remember "the base reasoning
behind this seems like a great idea" can be quoted by many anti-gunners when talking about how angry they are with us.

The above opinion was just that, an opinion, and was worth exactly what you paid for it!

Dave

 

[phalanx]

It looks like someone is working on it ,i just wonder what this will do in a rear end collision ?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322668,00.html

 

[KpdPipes]

It looks like someone is working on it ,i just wonder what this will do in a rear end collision ?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322668,00.html

That's what scars the Hell out of me with LNG powered cars as well.. I've handled a few accidents where i've seen the little "LNG-powered Sticker" and barring extraordinary corcumstances, like an entrapment..i do NOT go near it till the FD is on scene. The Hosers get pissed but We dont have anything to deal with a leak of LPG under pressure, they can at least water fog if it does happen. Hydrogen is some scary stuff..the only GOOD thing is that if it's designed right, they can put some kind of G-meter activated dump valve on it..Light as it is, it rises fast enough that a controlled release would dilute it to harmlessness pretty quickly IMO. As far as the rest of it??? The Right doesnt HATE the green movement..the right hates the idea that the Green Movement wants to MANDATE changes now, in many cases before the technology exists.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

I used to consider myself an environmentalist, but I don't want to touch those people with a 10 foot pole these days!

Conservation and less pollution, is better for everyone. But rather than encourage movement to this direction with intelligent talking points, or better technology, or even nice pleasantries, it's done with sleaze and sneaky bills to BAN this or BAN that while decreasing your quality of living, taking away your money, and forcing you into more harmful products.

 

[phalanx]

Kpd: i was thinking the same thing ,a car is not a controlled space capsule.
After the, Hindenburg,most people ran from anything that said ,Hydrogen.
Maybe that is why the German Scientist referred to in the story put all of his work on the shelf ?
I can see the first idiot filling his car while he is smoking.
But GM did make something showing they could.
The ideal way would be to convert the water into hydrogen in the car ,burn it in the cells ,then let it run out as steam.

 

[AaronHorrocks]

Hydrogen as a fuel is a fantasy.

It's extremely impractical. The amount of energy to get hydrogen to break it's bonds from whatever it's in, far exceeds what you can get out of it.

Also very important, is that there's no way to store this stuff for any decent amount of time. Because hydrogen is so small (heck it's typically just one proton and one electron) it leaks out of everything. Solid materials like steel tanks are like sponges on the atomic scale. Hydrogen wiggles and bounces it's way between the iron atoms and escapes into the atmosphere.