1919 A4 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished my week at the show yesterday. Glad that is over with!

I just sat here Thinking about certain booths and people I met. One thing that stuck out was the NRA booth. It was massive as usual. However every time I walked by it was completely empty or had one a few people there, mostly reps from other companies at the show. Bot many attendees from what I saw.

I am guessing this may be a direct result from the very recent bump stock fiasco.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,977 Posts
I just finished my week at the show yesterday. Glad that is over with!

I just sat here Thinking about certain booths and people I met. One thing that stuck out was the NRA booth. It was massive as usual. However every time I walked by it was completely empty or had one a few people there, mostly reps from other companies at the show. Bot many attendees from what I saw.

I am guessing this may be a direct result from the very recent bump stock fiasco.
They have been failing gun owners for a very, very long time:

1934 National Firearms Act (supported it)
1968 Gun Control Act (supported it)
1994 Assault Weapons ban (supported it)
Obama-era Russian firearms/ammo ban (did nothing)
United Nations-Drafted Barrel Import Ban (did nothing)
2018 Bump Stock Ban (supported it)
2018/2019 - Backing of "Red Flag" laws (supporting them!)


The NRA's revenue fell by $55 million from 2016 to 2017, leaving the organization with an $18 million deficit
The NRA's tax records confirm the drop in member dues by roughly $36 million between 2016 and 2017

In 2016 the NRA spent $63,000,000.00 on salaries and compensation


It is an organization that advertises things they don't do (protect our rights), collects revenue, enriches a few.

~Former NRA Member~
 

· PhD in Over-Engineering
Joined
·
8,769 Posts
Can't say if a lack of visible NRA reps was related to the great displeasure many have with the org over their support for a bump stock ban. But I would bet their reps were prepared for discussions on that topic. They can't be unaware of how many people are pissed off at them. I was only at the show for two days, but I avoided going into the NRA booth. If I'd been approached by an NRA rep, I'd have been unable to resist asking, in the most polite, professional and dispassionate manner, what the proper procedure is for requesting a refund on my life membership, now that the org has sold out gun owners again. No doubt, from there it would have escalated and become less than polite, professional and dispassionate.

ScottD is absolutely right. Wayne LaPierre gets paid seven figures a year and his only priority is to maintain his elite Beltway lobbyist lifestyle, keep his invitations to the cocktail parties and rub shoulders of the other power brokers that rub his. I used to have more hope for Chris Cox, but not anymore.

NRA wants us to believe that it was too dangerous to allow Congress to address bump stocks because they might get something else along with it, like forced background checks on all firearms sales, for example. But there is no way they can make the argument that they wanted to legally preserve bump stocks already purchased. They tell us that they expected that all current owners would be grandfathered by a registration process. However, they can't tell you how that would have happened. Because it couldn't, at least by the regulatory method. The NRA is not stupid, they understand the law. But they are more than willing to distort reality and hope they can convince us that 1 + 1 may equal 3. There is no mechanism for the regulatory process to invent a new category for an accessory such as the bump stock, so the only option was to redefine the statutory definition of a machine gun in such a fashion as to include bump stocks. This is what has been done, and it was the only thing they could try to do, short of maintaining the status quo. The courts will have their say on that in the end. But what we must all be aware of is that, should the argument stick that bump stocks can be legally defined as machine guns, then there is absolutely no way that they can be grandfathered and registered. Can't happen. Why? Because by all definitions they would have to bear the status of post 86 dealer sample machine guns. No civilian without an FFL and SOT could maintain legal possession of such. And since they were all manufactured without paper to begin with, no existing bump stocks would qualify to be papered as post samples after the fact. That is how the rule is applied to unregistered machine guns now. So the NRA is being wholly dishonest with us in its face-saving attempt to say they were really expecting ATF to allow owners to keep their bump stocks. I can believe they are that devious, but I can't believe they are that stupid as to not know what they were doing. At best, they thought they could get away with this sans a big backlash. Surprise!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lucky I have to agree with everything you said there. I too stayed away from the booth to avoid any conversation. I will however focus my financial support for GOA and like organizations. I will not be attending anymore fundraisers, dinners, or purchasing anything from them until they get some new people elected and change their ways.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,693 Posts
Very well put Rollin. I've been a member for over 40 years. I've questioned them a few times, and disagreed more than a few, but I too am at a point where all I see is greed, good life, and luxury living at the highest levels of NRA. I'm sick of it also.....

You know that old "fool me once shame on you" saying [I think from Star Trek - lol]. Well.........I am there now......not believing anything from their mouths right at this point. :mad:

I'm still holding hope the courts will prevail on our behalf - but I am not a complete fool on that course either...... :rolleyes:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Very well put Rollin. I've been a member for over 40 years. I've questioned them a few times, and disagreed more than a few, but I too am at a point where all I see is greed, good life, and luxury living at the highest levels of NRA. I'm sick of it also.....

You know that old "fool me once shame on you" saying [I think from Star Trek - lol]. Well.........I am there now......not believing anything from their mouths right at this point. :mad:

I'm still holding hope the courts will prevail on our behalf - but I am not a complete fool on that course either...... :rolleyes:
The only way I see ANY pro 2a stuff happening is through SCOTUS. Even the republicans don't seem to want to vote on anything in our favor. We wont be getting anything in the next 2 years, and IF Trump runs and wins again I doubt anything will happen during that term. SCOTUS did give cert for the one case, first time in nearly 10 years regarding the magazine ban etc.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,977 Posts
I can believe they are that devious, but I can't believe they are that stupid as to not know what they were doing. At best, they thought they could get away with this sans a big backlash. Surprise!
Bravo Lucky#13, you once again hit the nail right on the head.

The most sickening thing about the NRA is that they truly are that devious and they will continue to pick and choose their easy battles and claim huge victories as long as they keep getting paid to do so. As the backlash continues and their donations decrease well below their spending, only then will we see a regime change. But that organization will require a complete re-write of its bylaws in order to completely eradicate the corruption and graft that exists within itself.

The last thing we need is a toothless, fake organization interested only in supporting itself. With Trump's recent Attorney General nominee William P. Barr being the biggest threat to 2nd Amendment rights this nation has ever seen, we need strong organizations who will attack and defend on all fronts, not pick and choose what it feels is good or bad P.R. or whatever it is that drives the NRA's decision tree.


Find an organization you trust and believe in fellas, this is what we're up against: https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/26/barr-ruby-ridge/
 

· Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
The NRA booth at SHOT is always a nice quiet place for a phone call. Nobody goes there because there's no reason to. They have nothing new to see and nothing to sell. Occasionally they have interesting things in the 'museum' part, but its a mystery to me why they blow so much money on it every year.
 

· PhD in Over-Engineering
Joined
·
8,769 Posts
Bravo Lucky#13, you once again hit the nail right on the head.

The most sickening thing about the NRA is that they truly are that devious and they will continue to pick and choose their easy battles and claim huge victories as long as they keep getting paid to do so. As the backlash continues and their donations decrease well below their spending, only then will we see a regime change. But that organization will require a complete re-write of its bylaws in order to completely eradicate the corruption and graft that exists within itself.

The last thing we need is a toothless, fake organization interested only in supporting itself. With Trump's recent Attorney General nominee William P. Barr being the biggest threat to 2nd Amendment rights this nation has ever seen, we need strong organizations who will attack and defend on all fronts, not pick and choose what it feels is good or bad P.R. or whatever it is that drives the NRA's decision tree.


Find an organization you trust and believe in fellas, this is what we're up against: https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/26/barr-ruby-ridge/
I am also concerned about William Barr. His history is appalling, yet some I know are convinced he has turned around and is now pro gun. He will get in, either way. But his actions in the Ruby Ridge aftermath are horrific, and unforgivable.

For great stuff on NRA deception, check this out. Some of you have seen it as it has been linked on the forum elsewhere. https://www.ammoland.com/2018/01/are-we-revising-nra-history/#axzz54ZqvuUp0

At the end it endorses Adam Kraut for the board. He has run unsuccessfully twice. He is also one of the attorneys in the Firearms Policy Coalition lawsuit against the Trump bump stock ban.

The NRA booth at SHOT is always a nice quiet place for a phone call. Nobody goes there because there's no reason to. They have nothing new to see and nothing to sell. Occasionally they have interesting things in the 'museum' part, but its a mystery to me why they blow so much money on it every year.
A few years back, having finally become a life member, it was at SHOT that I went up to the next level with a discount offer made at the NRA Booth. I might have gone up another level at a future show, but then the Las Vegas tragedy happened, the NRA was selling us out within hours, and I was done.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,572 Posts
If I had not become a life member prior to 1986 the NRA is not an organization I would belong to today. They ask for a lot and offer nothing but empty promises in return.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
785 Posts
This thread has so much truth in it about the NRA ! I am not a Life member for this very reason (I really don't trust anybody). I'm signed up thru Jan 2020. Its over then. Last week received yet another phone call from them begging to extend my membership. I read them the riot act (Similar to what Luck#13 stated ( OH and that paragraph is Awesome ! )) and the told them that my membership is terminated as of Jan 2020. There is only one reason why I'm an NRA member today is OBAMA ! I left them in 1994 for the same reasons and didn't return until 2008. But I believe I am finished with the NRA forever !

GO GOA !
 

· Read Only
Joined
·
747 Posts
Thanks for sharing that YouTube video Kirby, I couldn't agree with it more. Like the zombie followers are often times inclined to do I too have given generously to the NRA, I have gotten life memberships for myself , my wife and our three children and after the death of my father who left me some money I have given them somewhere between $10k to $12K which has insured that I will get calls for them on an almost a daily basis, including yesterday! Thanks to the modern electronic miracle of 'Caller ID' I have been able to thwart their efforts at every turn and will continue to do so. I am now putting my money into organizations like the CalGuns, California Rifle and Pistol Association and Gun Owners of America, people who are in the fight not for the riches but for our most fundamental right!
Why Did the NRA Abandon the Gun Community?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKEyBwLcAyY
 

· Read Only
Joined
·
747 Posts
They blow a lot of money to attract the 'Bright Shiny Object' crowd who are easily distracted by such displays of opulence... besides it's not 'Their' money and it's not coming out of 'Their' pockets.
The NRA booth at SHOT is always a nice quiet place for a phone call. Nobody goes there because there's no reason to. They have nothing new to see and nothing to sell. Occasionally they have interesting things in the 'museum' part, but its a mystery to me why they blow so much money on it every year.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,572 Posts
........has insured that I will get calls for them on an almost a daily basis, including yesterday!

I believe I ended up on their do not call list by asking every time they called when was Executive Vice President for Life Wayne LaPierre going to be replaced. :) It has been ten years or more since I received a call from the NRA.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Thanks for sharing that YouTube video Kirby, I couldn't agree with it more. Like the zombie followers are often times inclined to do I too have given generously to the NRA, I have gotten life memberships for myself , my wife and our three children and after the death of my father who left me some money I have given them somewhere between $10k to $12K which has insured that I will get calls for them on an almost a daily basis, including yesterday! Thanks to the modern electronic miracle of 'Caller ID' I have been able to thwart their efforts at every turn and will continue to do so. I am now putting my money into organizations like the CalGuns, California Rifle and Pistol Association and Gun Owners of America, people who are in the fight not for the riches but for our most fundamental right!
My take on it is if not the NRA then who? You mentioned a bunch of groups out here in CA (of which I am a member and regular volunteer). While this are all great organizations, the are nowhere near the size or power of the NRA. GalGuns and CRPA are small local groups and have no interest in or ability to affect federal issues. So, again, the question, if NOT the NRA, then who? GOA appears to be a small, hard core group with long shot hail marry nonsense like trying to repeal the 1934 NFA act. (good luck with that).

Frankly, all of the outrage here towards the NRA should be pointed squarely at Trump and the Republicans. They had two years of unopposed reign. With the stroke of the pen, Trump could have changed the executive orders regarding importation of AW's. The Senate and/or house could have moved to strengthen firearms protections, reciprocity etc. NOTHING. They didn't even try. For all the hard core right wing 2A supporters out there backing Trump and the Republicans, they have LESS THAN nothing to show for it. Unless you WANTED a bump stock ban.
 

· PhD in Over-Engineering
Joined
·
8,769 Posts
My take on it is if not the NRA then who? You mentioned a bunch of groups out here in CA (of which I am a member and regular volunteer). While this are all great organizations, the are nowhere near the size or power of the NRA. GalGuns and CRPA are small local groups and have no interest in or ability to affect federal issues. So, again, the question, if NOT the NRA, then who? GOA appears to be a small, hard core group with long shot hail marry nonsense like trying to repeal the 1934 NFA act. (good luck with that).

Frankly, all of the outrage here towards the NRA should be pointed squarely at Trump and the Republicans. They had two years of unopposed reign. With the stroke of the pen, Trump could have changed the executive orders regarding importation of AW's. The Senate and/or house could have moved to strengthen firearms protections, reciprocity etc. NOTHING. They didn't even try. For all the hard core right wing 2A supporters out there backing Trump and the Republicans, they have LESS THAN nothing to show for it. Unless you WANTED a bump stock ban.
Well you brought up the very problem we have. The NRA has long been viewed as the only firewall against gun control. And yet, all we have gotten in return is more gun control. That's not the result I expect for my money. So lets take a look at what successes we've had. For example, Heller and McDonald. How much did the NRA have to do with those cases? Oh, yeah. Nothing. Who was the lead attorney on those? Alan Gura. Who does Alan Gura represent? The Second Amendment Foundation. And they have other successes on their resumes in the court battles. Imagine if gun owners became aware enough and put their money into GOA or SAF, and it was THEY who had 5 million members. Who would be the big dog then? It's time we started being proactive and not just rolling over and insisting that NRA is our only hope. That is the same as saying there IS no hope.

You mention the NFA Act. The NRA would never DREAM of overturning it. As I have mentioned, their President testified before Congress in order to help PASS it, back in 1934. And the DOJ has used his words against us in the bump stock ban. That's your paragon of pro gun organizations. And you can find the same proactive sellout in 1986, with the Hughes Amendment, which is really the core of the bump stock issue. NRA will never look to overturn that, because they remain fully in support of it. If you merely look at the Miller decision of 1939, there is language right there that should overturn at least the 1986 Hughes Amendment. As one-sided as that case was, and as bad as its logic was regarding the short barreled shotgun, that same logic essentially is an argument in favor of civilian ownership of machine guns. So I am happy that GOA is going after the NFA. Sure, it's a long shot. But the same dynamic that keeps the general public thinking that machine guns are too dangerous for regular civilians is what keeps some people thinking that NRA is all that matters because it's the biggest. Attitudes have to change, unless we want to keep surrendering more and more rights.

By the way, Calguns and CRPA are not intended to fight on the national level, they are state organizations, and many states have something like that. So comparing them to NRA, GOA or SAF makes no sense. State orgs have a very important function, distinct from the national orgs.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,977 Posts
Frankly, all of the outrage here towards the NRA should be pointed squarely at Trump and the Republicans. They had two years of unopposed reign. With the stroke of the pen, Trump could have changed the executive orders regarding importation of AW's. The Senate and/or house could have moved to strengthen firearms protections, reciprocity etc. NOTHING. They didn't even try. For all the hard core right wing 2A supporters out there backing Trump and the Republicans, they have LESS THAN nothing to show for it. Unless you WANTED a bump stock ban.
That's a straw man argument. The Trump administration's failures have absolutely nothing to do with the failures of the NRA of the past 90 years, and the corruption, graft, and sleaze of the past 30.

But, let's use your straw man for a moment: where has the NRA been for the past two years when "Trump and the Republicans had two years of unopposed reign?" Lobbying? Changing minds in Congress? Sitting down with the President? No, they have done none of those things. Rather, they have squabbled and fought internally and wasted time and money given to them ... nay, entrusted to them to do the right thing.

The NRA wasted those two years, two years we will NEVER get back, an opportunity we may not have again.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top