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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So at the request of one particular customer, we opened a new PayPal account for Crankfire Systems. Didn't take long, and while funds were received and in process of being withdrawn from PayPal to our bank, they locked our account and then traced to another business account with our other company, and even a personal one, seizing funds in all three. The monies involved are small numbers, and the limits did not prevent us from refunding the transaction that got this started. Customer has his Crankfire, had had his payment refunded (short the PayPal fees) and will send us a check in the mail. But the viciousness of this action is remarkable. Others on this forum have had this happen, and many probably have avoided using PayPal or e-Bay for some time due to their anti gun record. The personal account was used mostly for buying, rarely for sales. The main business account was kept for convenience of customers who like to use PayPal, and so it started looking like a good idea to set up a new one as Crankfire runs on its own funding now, not co mingled. But it looks like our customers will no longer have that option. Some will probably say we should have known better. It was always a gamble, perhaps. But we feel it is best to let the community know what happened, so as to reaffirm and refresh the example of what they do when they believe you are in violation of their anti-gun policies.

While we have been unable to find any specific reference, on the PayPal user agreement pages, the e-mail they sent says that a "multi-burst trigger activator" is a banned item in their Acceptable Use terms. If it is there, they are hiding it pretty well. In any case, whatever convenience PayPal holds, they have burned the bridge once and for all.
 

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PayPal froze my account with $350 in it because some internet gangsters used my ID in a theft. Never could get it back. I hope they all die young and in a painful way. I hope they used the money to fund a trip in a small plane that crashed.
 

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Square for credit cards is the same way. They didn't get any money from me because I grabbed it every time it came in.
 

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...While we have been unable to find any specific reference, on the PayPal user agreement pages, the e-mail they sent says that a "multi-burst trigger activator" is a banned item in their Acceptable Use terms. If it is there, they are hiding it pretty well. In any case, whatever convenience PayPal holds, they have burned the bridge once and for all.
It's there in their acceptable use policy...

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1.violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.

2.relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

E
 

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Square is also anti-gun. I use Pay Anywhere and they are fine with guns, ammo, "multi-burst trigger actuators" whatever that is (gotta get one of those!) or anything else gun related. I use it frequently at gun shows. Same rate as Square with none of the hassles. And don't get me started on Paypal!
 

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It's there in their acceptable use policy...

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

1.violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.

2.relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods (e) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (f) items that are considered obscene, (g) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (h) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) ,certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

E



"Certain firearm parts" is a most ridiculous and unclear category. What a bunch of jerks
 

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they locked my account in 2010
its still locked
I'm banned for life since 2006 or 2007 over some M1 carbine 30 round mags. My buyer had put "M1 carbine 30 round mags" right in the subject line. Luckily I cleaned out my account before they froze it. I miss the nearly universal convenience of it.
 

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I wonder where I can buy a gross/144 multi burst trigger activators? And a 32 ounce soda!
IMHO multi burst means one pull of the trigger would fire multiple times. I think California says any device that increases the cyclic rate. IMHO that is based on the speed of the bolt and has nothing to do with the trigger. I think these people that make these rules have no idea what they are doing and are mindless twits.I stay within Federal regs. and do not discriminate according to where a person lives.I will no longer be using pay pal or greedy bay and only sell thru my web site.J.R.
 

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They were more than reasonable to me when I was accepting funds for banned items. The second time. The first time everything was frozen for a month. The next time they gave me time to comply.
 

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Yes good to post. I think we all understand!

Paypal is convenient. Thats why I still use it. However I am under no illusion. The second I get an email that funds have been sent to me, I empty the account. I will not hold a Penny balance in the account.

Also found out that forced refunds only work if there is money in the account to refund. So their guaranteed return policy is not much good if the bad sell empties the account first!

Just like losing ebay as a market place, it sucks... However At least it really turned Gunbroker into a well stocked machine for gun stuff.
 

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Another anti-gun company - shipping services this time.

Normally I ship by UPS or FedEx, print my own labels and have them pick up. This is a small town so we don't have a UPS or FedEx store or designated drop point. Last week I wanted to get out of town for a couple of days and had one long gun to ship so I packed it up and took it to the new "Goin' Postal" outlet thinking they could do the label and hold it for UPS to pick up, giving me a three or four hour head start on my trip.

All went well at the counter until the clerk asked the contents of the box, which I thought was out of line but I answered, "a bolt action rifle - it is unloaded and the bolt is packed separate from the rifle." The response was that they cannot ship firearms. Nonsense sez I, UPS and FedEx ship for me on a weekly basis. Company policy sez she. I took my package and left.

So, if a Goin' Postal franchise opens in your town you might consider doing business somewhere else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks to Hershmeister for pointing out the obvious here, in response to eplexus' quoting a useless reference which we were quite aware of. As stated in the opening post, there is no specific reference to a product like the Crankfire being against PayPal's rules. And e-Bay is not part of the equation here, just for the record.

Here is a larger portion of the text sent, after the fact, by e-mail, with the language that is NOT available on their website, which makes them more than a little deceptive:

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal reserves the right to limit
an account for any violation of the PayPal User Agreement, including the
Acceptable Use Policy.
Under the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or
receive payments for firearms or weapons, which include but are not limited
to:
Firearms - Includes all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they are
intended for use in sporting, as collectibles, or as curio and relic
firearms. These items are prohibited regardless of their present working
order.

Firearm parts - Includes, but is not limited to, receivers and frames,
silencers, kits designed to convert a firearm to automatic firing
capability, a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, multi-burst
trigger activators and camouflaging firearm containers.


So how is an individual or a vendor supposed to know what firearms parts are restricted when they don't tell you until after you have "violated" their policy? Nice little system for keeping people's money with no due notice, kind of like an entrapment strategy. I wonder how many Crankfire units- older ones, of course- have been sold on e-Bay without them noticing? Not to mention other crank type devices on the market. We have not used e-Bay, but had opened an account, which we have now closed without having done a single transaction, buying or selling.
 

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Thanks to Hershmeister for pointing out the obvious here, in response to eplexus' quoting a useless reference which we were quite aware of. As stated in the opening post, there is no specific reference to a product like the Crankfire being against PayPal's rules. And e-Bay is not part of the equation here, just for the record.

Here is a larger portion of the text sent, after the fact, by e-mail, with the language that is NOT available on their website, which makes them more than a little deceptive:

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal reserves the right to limit
an account for any violation of the PayPal User Agreement, including the
Acceptable Use Policy.
Under the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or
receive payments for firearms or weapons, which include but are not limited
to:
Firearms - Includes all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they are
intended for use in sporting, as collectibles, or as curio and relic
firearms. These items are prohibited regardless of their present working
order.

Firearm parts - Includes, but is not limited to, receivers and frames,
silencers, kits designed to convert a firearm to automatic firing
capability, a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, multi-burst
trigger activators and camouflaging firearm containers.


So how is an individual or a vendor supposed to know what firearms parts are restricted when they don't tell you until after you have "violated" their policy? Nice little system for keeping people's money with no due notice, kind of like an entrapment strategy. I wonder how many Crankfire units- older ones, of course- have been sold on e-Bay without them noticing? Not to mention other crank type devices on the market. We have not used e-Bay, but had opened an account, which we have now closed without having done a single transaction, buying or selling.
If indeed that wording was not present when you 'signed up', and now they've deprived you of your money, you should be able to successfully sue the monkey fluffers.
 

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They don,t seem to know what a multi- burst trigger actuator is and it is not a Crankfire. I have used pay pal for near two years and never had any hint of a problem but now I will be making some changes due to their ignorance.J.R.
 

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Choices

It seems to me that this is very much like the gay problem, if you put a sign up that says you don't serve gays you can be sued, and people have, so why can paypal refuse to do business with someone because of something they don't feel is good or right, if your item is legal were sold and sent then they shouldn't have any grounds to deny you service, it works for the gays it ought to work for everyone, if you are in business now day you don't have any rights!
 
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