1919 A4 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,129 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Flipping through facebook and a freind shared this...and sure enough, it was said and as of right now is up on the ATF Facebook page

https://m.facebook.com/comment/repl...tifier=1708488236029712&gfid=AQA1mhjwIL6xX4LY

"So, say I am a federal agency, and I sell a bunch of guns to Mexican cartels, do I need a federal firearms license?"
Like6,347More · Monday at 10:29pm


This caused an ATF employee response of "get off this page" cannot read the original reponse because it has been deleted but the 500 plus responses can be humorous. I am certain her bosses are chewing her backside off for that one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,129 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The thread is still there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,129 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
There are some classics in there. I imagine Ms. BATFE is wishing she had never responded. Some of those guys are really going medieval on her, but it is very entertaining. Much like a slow motion car wreck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,565 Posts
liberal mud

As usual the government has come out with more new laws without making anything clear,like one poster stated it's all so the cops can use it against you, even though the no one really understands exactly what it is! typical liberal clear as mud BS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,272 Posts
Loophole

The 'Gun Show Loophole" issue has never been about that, really. That's just the excuse they want to use to require all firearms transactions to go through an FFL. Wanna know how bad it can get? It's my understanding that in New York, you can't even loan your rifle to your brother without going through a dealer. That's where the anti-gunners want to go. And know this.......it's not anywhere remotely about crime control. It's about people control.

"Whoso would be a man must be a non-conformist" Emerson

I take this to mean that if a law is unjust, you cannot be a man if you obey it. To obey an unjust law validates it.

My .02

Ryland
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,682 Posts
Ryland - as a NY citizen I completely understand. I've stated exactly that to numerous new yorkers (including my father who used to hold an FFL - and who is also a current local judge) - "If I accept ANY part of the "safe" act I must accept all of it. Therefore I accept none of it."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
There are some classics in there. I imagine Ms. BATFE is wishing she had never responded. Some of those guys are really going medieval on her, but it is very entertaining. Much like a slow motion car wreck.
A lot of those comments were simply uncalled for, they really make gun owners as a whole look bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,891 Posts
Yes many times comments are made that are needlessly cruel or uncalled for. This starts at the kindergarten level, and carries on up all the way through adulthood and old age homes.

Oh yeah - did I forget to mention politicians during campaign seasons? :rofl::rofl:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,129 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Kirby, while I agree that some are over the top I kinda look on it as picking a cab off an infection. Fast and Furious was so mismanaged as to have been a criminal exercise. 1400 guns sold to criminals with 34 low level prosecutions, not including the components to make 100s of hand grenades used in nightclub attacks in Mexico that the govt had a hand in. Mexican police helicopters shot down, who knows how many people in Mexico hurt/killed besides our officers killed. Some references they were selling guns to street gangs in the US as well.

ATF has a black eye because this operation should have been shut down internally long before it got to 1400 guns. Early on those involved in overseeing this should have been examined with an interagency board of inquiry and been fired, demoted, or put on rubber gun squad pushing papers. They let it get to EPIC criminal proportions and then tried to blame legitimate gun owners and FFLs who were forced to go along with this bungled scheme.

If ATF or the Justice Dept rolled heads when this came to light instead of playing hide the bleenie in the closet Gun owners would not be quite as angry and venemous. It brings up memories of the Ruby Ridge debacle as well as the $h!# show that went down in Waco where agents disciplined and fired were quietly reinstated later.

The Branch Davidians even though there was no evidence of having machineguns and those charges being dropped from the case WERE SENTENCED for having machineguns.....

Add in the hypocrisy of this agency being used to enforce highly suspect Executive actions.......after all else.

A history of poor decisions regarding whats legal then changing their minds damaging/ruining people's businesses....there are a few on this board that can testify first hand...

Stories of them creating databases from gun stores by removing files from their stores...

Investigations where they have treated sales clerks in PA Walmarts as conspirators scaring them for days and telling them if they get lawyers they will be prosecuted....

I cannot be certain how much is fabricated, or a perception, but in political circus it is the lens through which they are viewed.

Like any law enforcement agency, that 1 clown employee in 100 or 500 makes all the Good hardworking agents look bad. I have known a few good people over the years and I feel for them having to put up with all of this public abuse but ATF has brought this on themselves by failung to police their own ranks and deal firmly with those responsible.

Their black eye is a reminder they need to work on that PR.

So in conclusion I feel this (as unpleasant as it is) is picking the scab off the infection to let it drain. This is an important part of a Republic. Machiavelli pointed out that the open political siscussion and debate is necessary and good for a Republic because it forces goverment leaders to hear the peoples concerns, complaints, and hopefully influences policy in a oositive way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,252 Posts
...the intent says it all..!!

You'se guy's hit it on the head. All this *****-footing around is to hide the real intention...disarm the entire US population so control will be easier. It started with FDR (Roosevelt) in 1932. He was elected the same year as Hitler...also democraticly elected by the German people. It has progressed with every president...some more...some less. It's almost time,folks. The Hammond Ranch in OR could be the Lexington or Concord of our time. Should have been a wake up call at Waco and Ruby Ridge back in the early '90's. ...rant over....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,175 Posts
Spewing that sort of venom toward someone whose only job is the run a Facebook page is over the top and very immature. I am quite certain that individual was not at the level that caused all of the ills ATF is accused of.

People with a beef against ATF should take it up with ATF management and elected officials not hammer someone who had nothing to do with it.

"..... that 1 clown employee in 100 or 500 makes all the Good hardworking agents look bad."


Same could be said for that one clown gunower in 100 or 500 that makes all the good law abiding gun owners look bad. Unfortunately the clown gun owners on that page far out numbered the good ones.




Kirby, while I agree that some are over the top I kinda look on it as picking a cab off an infection. Fast and Furious was so mismanaged as to have been a criminal exercise. 1400 guns sold to criminals with 34 low level prosecutions, not including the components to make 100s of hand grenades used in nightclub attacks in Mexico that the govt had a hand in. Mexican police helicopters shot down, who knows how many people in Mexico hurt/killed besides our officers killed. Some references they were selling guns to street gangs in the US as well.

ATF has a black eye because this operation should have been shut down internally long before it got to 1400 guns. Early on those involved in overseeing this should have been examined with an interagency board of inquiry and been fired, demoted, or put on rubber gun squad pushing papers. They let it get to EPIC criminal proportions and then tried to blame legitimate gun owners and FFLs who were forced to go along with this bungled scheme.

If ATF or the Justice Dept rolled heads when this came to light instead of playing hide the bleenie in the closet Gun owners would not be quite as angry and venemous. It brings up memories of the Ruby Ridge debacle as well as the $h!# show that went down in Waco where agents disciplined and fired were quietly reinstated later.

The Branch Davidians even though there was no evidence of having machineguns and those charges being dropped from the case WERE SENTENCED for having machineguns.....

Add in the hypocrisy of this agency being used to enforce highly suspect Executive actions.......after all else.

A history of poor decisions regarding whats legal then changing their minds damaging/ruining people's businesses....there are a few on this board that can testify first hand...

Stories of them creating databases from gun stores by removing files from their stores...

Investigations where they have treated sales clerks in PA Walmarts as conspirators scaring them for days and telling them if they get lawyers they will be prosecuted....

I cannot be certain how much is fabricated, or a perception, but in political circus it is the lens through which they are viewed.

Like any law enforcement agency, that 1 clown employee in 100 or 500 makes all the Good hardworking agents look bad. I have known a few good people over the years and I feel for them having to put up with all of this public abuse but ATF has brought this on themselves by failung to police their own ranks and deal firmly with those responsible.

Their black eye is a reminder they need to work on that PR.

So in conclusion I feel this (as unpleasant as it is) is picking the scab off the infection to let it drain. This is an important part of a Republic. Machiavelli pointed out that the open political siscussion and debate is necessary and good for a Republic because it forces goverment leaders to hear the peoples concerns, complaints, and hopefully influences policy in a oositive way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,565 Posts
Atf

Unfortunenetly the poor shmuck that has to run that site for them is going to get all the venom that everyone has because they are the only visible and accessible face of a corrupt agency! Kind of like the person running the complaint department at a big store, they didn't screw up someones order but they have to hear about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,355 Posts
Haven't the Supremes rules a criminal needn't register because that would be self incrimination?

Carry On!
Gary
><>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,712 Posts
Was it a post by Becky Solis that tried to shut down the comments, and has since been taken down?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,565 Posts
5th

I've always wondered if you could plead the 5th when filling out a yellow form, the part about being a drug user,shouldn't the 5th apply, especially if you've never been convicted?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
For better or worse the AFT brought this upon themselves. So when they want to talk about who has to register as a dealer and all that entails they should be ready to accept the beating they are going to get over fast and furious. They just need to hang their heads and take it. This agent may not deserve it but the ATF does. So they need to smile and let the people remind them they screw up as well as much as the rest of us. Not tell the poster that they need to leave the discussion.

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,262 Posts
Since no one mentioned politicians or the US voting age public in terms of failure, I will. What has anyone else done when ATF employees - or employees of State, IRS, GSA, or VA have provided information on unethical or illegal conduct? I'll answer for you cause I'm a nice guy - ZERO. No prosecutions, and repeated budget increases (thank you republican party) which is like heroine for government managers and thus a reward for the reported conduct. The employees who have done so have in many or most cases faced reprisals for doing so (again - thanks, republicans for the rhetoric with no substance). Sticking to ATF; Dobyns, Cefalu, Dodson, et al were public faces but there were others who finked on sub par conduct by people getting paid big money. Results were the same. As far as I know, Brian Terry's family has not yet got an apology. I know multiple real life government whistleblowers and I am fairly confident it's easier to complain from the internet bleachers than to risk everything you have in a failed crusade over and over. For those who say you can do better, lead by example - your country needs you and your failure to act makes you part of the problem.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top