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One of my customers decided to get to the bottom of the primer situation. He went thru the normal call...leave message,wait for a return call. Decided to further investigate after no return contacts for over a week. Did a view of the CCI plant in ID,thru mapquest,zoomed to the gas station across from the main plant and called them in real time. Fellow at gas station said his brother had worked there for years,was recently laid off and plant had been closed and no cars or workers had been there in over a MONTH.
Did the same for the Winchester plant in East Alton,IL...same response from a business close by.

If this is not a planed scheme to deny us of ammo...or even the components...then someone please explain any viable understadable explaination for what is happening.

This is not just supply and demand.
 

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Disturbing to know after several press releases, statements and videos by Hornady, Hodgdon Powder and others assuring us that production is balls to the wall and they just can't keep up with demand. Anyway to get some better intel on what is going on within these places?
 

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Did the same for the Winchester plant in East Alton,IL...same response from a business close by.

If this is not a planed scheme to deny us of ammo...or even the components...then someone please explain any viable understadable explaination for what is happening.

This is not just supply and demand.

As far as Winchester is concerned there is no conspiracy theory to chase down, in 2011 Winchester began moving its centerfire ammunition production to Oxford, MS. East Alton is the wrong place to be looking.

 

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Len,
Tell your folks to keep doing their deep dives to the “bottom”
But maybe come up for air more often.

the primer situation is easy. The large Mfg are getting all inventory.
 

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Pretty much a supply and demand thing Len and keep in mind in the past few years even the anti gun crown started buying guns and ammo. In the past two years we have had over 33 million transfers of guns that is 10% of the population of this country and if they all just bought a couple boxes well...... We are a gun culture and people have been buying more and more over the past 10 years or more so I doubt these companies can even start to keep up during the frenzies we have experienced in recent times.
 

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A couple years ago, a friend showed me his stash of primers. He had two (2) foot lockers packed full. One foot locker held pistol primers and the other held rifle primers. I asked him why he had so many. He said he bought them all at $3.50 per 1000. The price was so good, he bought all they had.
 

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Len, You got your info from a 'guy' who got it from a 'guys' brother at a gas station. Thats not info. And except the first "guy', they are all strangers on the phone.
 

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Many valid points here....BUT. Someone try to explain why folks in Houston,TX can get primers at a Cabela's and one of the largest component suppliers,Graf & Son's,Mexico,MO has not had ANY primers for the last 7-mo....? Graf has been my primary supplier of components,guns,etc. for over 25-yrs.
 

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Any one catch what type 9mm he said had not been in demand?
 

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Many valid points here....BUT. Someone try to explain why folks in Houston,TX can get primers at a Cabela's and one of the largest component suppliers,Graf & Son's,Mexico,MO has not had ANY primers for the last 7-mo....? Graf has been my primary supplier of components,guns,etc. for over 25-yrs.
The Bass Pro Shop and the Cabela's in my area have not had primers in months nor have any of the local stores. I find it hard to believe a Cabela's in Houston currently has primers available.

You should have been around and through this sort of shortage enough in the past to know how it works, there is no Art Bell level conspiracy preventing you from buying primers, this is all driven by supply and demand.
 

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You should have been around and through this sort of shortage enough in the past to know how it works, there is no Art Bell level conspiracy preventing you from buying primers, this is all driven by supply and demand.
To add: the most significant level of demand to date
 

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Black Hills shooters supply was having demand issues last March. I put in my usual order for about 40,000 various primers after the winter reloading season. (to replace and bring me up to levels for the next year) It took them until Sept. to fill my order. so this is not new, and not a widespread plot.....
 

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I have a friend that does outside engineering work for Olin brass in East Alton, Illinois. He said the last time he was there, less than a month ago, they were running balls to the wall.
 

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I have a friend that does outside engineering work for Olin brass in East Alton, Illinois. He said the last time he was there, less than a month ago, they were running balls to the wall.
but a friend of a friend of Len’s spoke to a gas station nearby that says otherwise.....
 

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I know there was a shortage of all ammo several years ago when Obama was in office. At that time it was difficult to get ammo and especially certain odd calibers. The ammo companies said that some of the calibers were only produced once a year or less. They would have to convert lines over to produce that caliber of ammo. Once their warehouse had enough of a certain caliber they switch to another one. Components were readily available. Now, even components are extremely hard to get.

I watched the Federal guys video when it came out. He seemed quite negative. I also watched him scoop his hands into a bin a ammo and said they were producing more 30-06 ammo this year than last year. I get about a half a dozen gun magazines and they all all talking 6.5 something or other. I do not think 30-06 has been in demand for years. Why are they tying up a production line making that? Who is buying 30-06 ammo??? First time pistol buyers? These folks buy the handgun, a box or two of ammo, stick it in the drawer, don't get any sort of handgun training and forget about it.

You would think they would concentrate on 9mm, 40 cal, 45 ACP, .223, and 5.56.

He didn't mention pricing? If it was staying the same or going up.

I think Jason for Hornady in his video was more positive and keep thanking us for the business.

In my readings and travels a week ago, I learned that Vista Outdoors purchased a Remington ammo plant that was running at half or less speed. This was due to Remington going into bankruptcy do to the Sandy Hook issues in 2012 and they are facing lawsuits. Vista Outdoors already has hired about 400 people.


Have you guys been to the range? Are their lots of people expending ammo? At my ranges that is a big no. Ammo is too hard to find and too expensive to replace. So, if people are not shooting / using ammo, wouldn't it be faster to catch up..?? I certainly am not buying .223 ammo at 3x the price to stock on my other boxes that i bought for .30 a round.

Maybe manufacturers are afraid to ramp up, to avoid the price fall at the end like what happened to the AR scene several years ago. Guns were backing up in distribution channels. And prices had to be dropped to get things moving.

I would also assume that the government is requesting that their contracts be fulfilled to the limit in anticipation of social unrest.

We all know the way to cripple an enemy is to screw up the supply chain....
 

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"...Have you guys been to the range? Are their lots of people expending ammo? At my ranges that is a big no. Ammo is too hard to find and too expensive to replace. So, if people are not shooting / using ammo, wouldn't it be faster to catch up..?? I certainly am not buying .223 ammo at 3x the price to stock on my other boxes that i bought for .30 a round..."

I went to my usual, large outdoor range Wednesday - there were people waiting for shooting stations and lots of brass on the ground. Another shooter told me it had been mobbed all week. There was another older gentleman there instructing his daughter in the use of an AR. It appeared to be her first time with the weapon. My daughter and I did some quick drills and left. Everybody's doing it - be happy, we've won the gun control argument. MSG
 

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I watched the Federal guys video when it came out. He seemed quite negative. I also watched him scoop his hands into a bin a ammo and said they were producing more 30-06 ammo this year than last year. I get about a half a dozen gun magazines and they all all talking 6.5 something or other. I do not think 30-06 has been in demand for years. Why are they tying up a production line making that? Who is buying 30-06 ammo??? First time pistol buyers? These folks buy the handgun, a box or two of ammo, stick it in the drawer, don't get any sort of handgun training and forget about it.

You would think they would concentrate on 9mm, 40 cal, 45 ACP, .223, and 5.56.

He didn't mention pricing? If it was staying the same or going up.
maybe he’s taking it personal abs coming to major defense of his staff. Can you imagine working massive overtime and having to read bullshit like what Len has posted above? Or fielding that nonsense from every direction?
And I’ll take the president of federal’s word about what ammo is selling the best over the marketing pushing 6.5 or any other non standard cal.
 
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