Pros and cons of a screw build
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833 Posts
Are we talking a 1919 or an AK?? 
If your thinking of a screw build on a 1919, then make sure you pick up the screw you have loose and use it in the build! Haha!
Just kidding with you, but seriously, I wouldn't trust a screw-built 1919 myself....
If your thinking of a screw build on a 1919, then make sure you pick up the screw you have loose and use it in the build! Haha!Just kidding with you, but seriously, I wouldn't trust a screw-built 1919 myself....
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8,769 Posts
If you do a screw build, you will need deep penetrating welds in three areas, as described in lobo's build tutorial. 1) The trunnion to the RSP, 2) the top plate to the RSP, and 3) the bottom plate to the RSP. I am not aware that any combination of screws and welding has been considered, but I wouldn't expect that to pass muster without welding. The key is assembly has to be considered permanent.
Just go and rivet it, no welding required, and it will look much better.
Just go and rivet it, no welding required, and it will look much better.
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289 Posts
I would'nt. Rivets might appear tricky, but if your put off by them then I would suggest just buying a pre-built 1919. Take your time, practice a bit, and you will do fine.
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896 Posts
Pros: NONE
Cons: Welding required.
Welding ruins the look of the finish.( My opinion)
Welding has the potential of warping parts from heat.
Welding requires more grinding and polishing
to finish.
Drilling and tapping every hole will be a major
pain in the ass for any builder, experienced or novice
Screws loosen up, rivets RARELY ever loosen if set
correctly.
Bolts look like **** on a gun that should be rivetted.
Bolts may not finish the same as the rest of the
metal whereas rivets usually parkerize the same
color or very close.
If you mess up a thread, you'll have to repair it by going a size up or welding and redrilling. Again....more work than its worth.
Do yourself a favor, buy some rivets, a cheap air hammer gun from Harbor Freight (or borrow one), a bucking bar and a 2lb hammer and a medium ballpeen hammer and rivet your gun, you'll be glad you did.
Cons: Welding required.
Welding ruins the look of the finish.( My opinion)
Welding has the potential of warping parts from heat.
Welding requires more grinding and polishing
to finish.
Drilling and tapping every hole will be a major
pain in the ass for any builder, experienced or novice
Screws loosen up, rivets RARELY ever loosen if set
correctly.
Bolts look like **** on a gun that should be rivetted.
Bolts may not finish the same as the rest of the
metal whereas rivets usually parkerize the same
color or very close.
If you mess up a thread, you'll have to repair it by going a size up or welding and redrilling. Again....more work than its worth.
Do yourself a favor, buy some rivets, a cheap air hammer gun from Harbor Freight (or borrow one), a bucking bar and a 2lb hammer and a medium ballpeen hammer and rivet your gun, you'll be glad you did.
I have a done a screw build.
I recommend not doing it. The bottom plate is harder than hell, and you will have a terrible time drilling and tapping it.
I only screwed the bottom plate really, and set everything else with rivets.
I cannot stress enough not to do a screw build, especially since the welding issue is clarified, I would have never done a screw build.
JW
I recommend not doing it. The bottom plate is harder than hell, and you will have a terrible time drilling and tapping it.
I only screwed the bottom plate really, and set everything else with rivets.
I cannot stress enough not to do a screw build, especially since the welding issue is clarified, I would have never done a screw build.
JW
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2,383 Posts
Screw screw builds!
I'm biased, but riveting is far easier than you think. All rivet sets come with enough rivets to attach both sideplates. If the LSP is still attached (most are), you have twice as many Bottom plate rivets than are needed. Practice.
Even the new M240s are riveted together, not screwed.
Besides, you can get a set of rivets and a tool to set them (from me, did I mention I was biased) for $30.00, delivered.
MSG
I'm biased, but riveting is far easier than you think. All rivet sets come with enough rivets to attach both sideplates. If the LSP is still attached (most are), you have twice as many Bottom plate rivets than are needed. Practice.
Even the new M240s are riveted together, not screwed.
Besides, you can get a set of rivets and a tool to set them (from me, did I mention I was biased) for $30.00, delivered.
MSG
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572 Posts
I have no skills nor a press and was able to do rivets no problem. The thick ones were a hassle as I didn't heat them first. I just grabbed a BFH and took out some aggression on them. It came out fine and worked from the get go.
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19 Posts
My very first build was my 1919 and after fretting about it for quite awhile, I actually started it. It was almost anticlimactic. Rivetting was not quite the boogeyman I had made it out to be. Turned out great and functiond fine. Use a BFH on the large rivets, and a not quite so BFH on the smaller rivets. I cut a piece of 1/2" keystock to back my bottom plate rivets, and off I went. Riveting is not as intimidating as you may think it is.
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1,022 Posts
Patriotpa,
I'm still awake so here goes.
Build what ever you like. The first 1919 and FA that I ever shot was put together by a guy who got to work on them when they were New . He was an Army Armorer in the Pacific in WWII..He was also an Enginer at TRW when they were makeing the M14....He desided to make his a screwed together gun. Never had a problem.
Rivited guns are mostly a " The Way they did it " thing. They are fine and also the way I do it because ITS EASIER AND FASTER FOR PRODUCTION !!!!!... Thats it, there BOTH strong and not going anywhere...Lou
I'm still awake so here goes.
Build what ever you like. The first 1919 and FA that I ever shot was put together by a guy who got to work on them when they were New
. He was an Army Armorer in the Pacific in WWII..He was also an Enginer at TRW when they were makeing the M14....He desided to make his a screwed together gun. Never had a problem.Rivited guns are mostly a " The Way they did it " thing. They are fine and also the way I do it because ITS EASIER AND FASTER FOR PRODUCTION !!!!!... Thats it, there BOTH strong and not going anywhere...Lou
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2,141 Posts
Lou,
that is how i feel on AK's... and i do grade 8 button heads on them all the time with no issues at all.
the mini 1919's are also using screws.
but my 1919 & my 50bmg are rivet jobs not done by me. maybe next time.
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689 Posts
Thanks for all the help guys.. This question wasn't for a build, well, not right now. This was research for the purchase of a secondhand gun. The gun in question was built using 2 11/32" rivets, with the balance being buttonhead screws. The receiver is welded under the bottom plate to both side plates with drilled holes and then welded back shut. That would be permanent as hell, so I think compliance has been taken care of. That was my major worry.
I have lurked, learned and posted on here for a loooong time, as many of you know. I value the advice given here, which is why I asked after I had already read all I could find.
I was leery of a screw-built and welded 1919, but after doing some more reading, this hybrid screw/rivet/weld version seems to me to be quite solid, especially as the major rivets are installed. After reading the many postings on this, especially OhioBlackSheep, this looks like a decent way to go. Not the only way, but decent. I'm going to do a hands-on inspection of the gun this weekend. If it's as good as the owner claims, we'll both be very happy, and I'll have another way to burn through ammo.
I see a possible Sokolov mount refurbishment project coming up ( I hate lugging crap from the truck )
I have lurked, learned and posted on here for a loooong time, as many of you know. I value the advice given here, which is why I asked after I had already read all I could find.
I was leery of a screw-built and welded 1919, but after doing some more reading, this hybrid screw/rivet/weld version seems to me to be quite solid, especially as the major rivets are installed. After reading the many postings on this, especially OhioBlackSheep, this looks like a decent way to go. Not the only way, but decent. I'm going to do a hands-on inspection of the gun this weekend. If it's as good as the owner claims, we'll both be very happy, and I'll have another way to burn through ammo.
I see a possible Sokolov mount refurbishment project coming up
( I hate lugging crap from the truck )
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1,259 Posts
Screws are for cars, trucks, metal buildings, etc. Riveting is so much more easy than screws and looks(and is) correct; not to mention the welding that has to be done to make it legal. Learn to rivet and build one of everything left out there that is still available. You won't regret it..
My first build was a partially bolted together gun. I used all the long rivets, and cart stop rivet, trunion pad rivets. All the rest were tapped (real easy with tap sockets and lube) screwed with button headed allen bolts and bearing Lock-Tite. The Allen heads were filled with Bondo and the gun was painted with Brownells Park-in-a Can and hosed down with oil. Looks just like rivets except they ALL look perfect.
So far none have worked loose and I've shot out three barrels on that particular gun. I would suggest to have it professionally TIG welded as per
the tutorial. If you paint rather than Park you won't see any discoloration.
The only reason I did it was a friend did all the internal machining so quickly (cost a few beers) I was anxious to put it together and shoot it.
It took an about an hour and a half with a DeWalt screw gun/drill driver.
Even without welding this gun would be harder to remove the side plate than a riveted gun and it would take a whole lot longer.
So far none have worked loose and I've shot out three barrels on that particular gun. I would suggest to have it professionally TIG welded as per
the tutorial. If you paint rather than Park you won't see any discoloration.
The only reason I did it was a friend did all the internal machining so quickly (cost a few beers) I was anxious to put it together and shoot it.
It took an about an hour and a half with a DeWalt screw gun/drill driver.
Even without welding this gun would be harder to remove the side plate than a riveted gun and it would take a whole lot longer.
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