[deepocean]

In searching for belts for a 30-06, there seem to be a lot of different belts available, made by a number of different companies. Which work the best in the 1919a4?

Why do some belts have metal tabs on both ends, while others have metal tabs on only one end?

I have read that you can wash some belts. I am very allergic to mold, musty smells, etc. Washing could be helpful for me, but how do you do that to something that old that has metal tabs?

Do all belts have metal tabs? Can the tabs be detached?

Do you need the tab to start feeding the belt into the gun?

I think I have read of some people cutting a belt in the event of some gun malfunction. Are there misfire/other gun malfunction situations in which using links vs. a belt would be safer--in other words if you have to stop the gun feeding can you break the links easier vs. cutting the belt?

 

[Rory]

wow lots of questions, i will add some answers and some guesses.

the older belts seem to work better inmost guns but some guns will use any. i would venture to say that it has to deal with ease of extraction. newer belts are generally tighter.

metal tabs... made that way so the cloth does not just fray away? single ended one end was cut or fell off. or only for one directional feed. 2 sided for right or left handed feed

they are not needed anyway. some people just like them, others don't care.

you are worried about washing a piece of metal? if that worried about the metal scratching the inside of your washing machine or dryer, double over the end pieces and wrap with a piece of twine so that the metal tab is covered by one layer of the belt. no noise that way.

if you have a run away gun, pulling a round out of the belt will be a hell of a lot easier than cutting it. which is what you would have to do with links. either way if you have a runaway SA gun, you have more problems than the need to save your ammo. in that situation hold on, control the fire until the end of the belt. keep the grin down and enjoy it. then completely dismantle your gun right there at the firing line. figure out the problem and or leave.

 

[fastmonkey87]

I've also herd some guys say that you can twist the belt to jam the feed if you get a random full auto burst.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

In searching for belts for a 30-06, there seem to be a lot of different belts available, made by a number of different companies. Which work the best in the 1919a4?

any belt made for a 30 cal browning machine gun will work. try to find original equipment manufacturer for the least amount of headaches. anything made from 1930 - 1960 will probably work perfectly for you. there are new made options as well at IMA but some people have reported problems with them.
one thing you WILL need if you plan to run cloth is a belt loader. and the cost and expense of a cloth belt loader usually drives most people to links.

my advice - even though i prefer belts, i advise you start out with israeli .308 links. you can link any caliber with them by hand. they are cheap, and you can advance to cloth belts later

Why do some belts have metal tabs on both ends, while others have metal tabs on only one end?

double ended belts are able to be fed through the feedway without opening the top cover from either direction

single ended tabbed belts are able to fed into the feedway without opening the top cover on the tabbed end

some belts have eyelets on each end instead of tabs - you usually have to raise the top cover to load these belts which is no big deal.

I have read that you can wash some belts. I am very allergic to mold, musty smells, etc. Washing could be helpful for me, but how do you do that to something that old that has metal tabs?

just wash the things, but know its gonna cause them to shrink which will create havoc if you wash them new. run them through loaded a few times until they get too loose before you wash them. The cost of belts prevents me from washing my belts any other way than with woolite by hand in the sink. i worry about my $30.00 original ww2 belt fraying in the washing machine. i try to make them last as long as possible so i dont wash them until they just get too loose, and then i use woolite in the sink.

Do all belts have metal tabs? Can the tabs be detached?

no, not all belts have tabs - do not remove or detach the riveted tabs. it will cause the belt to fray and you will have just ruined an expensive belt

Do you need the tab to start feeding the belt into the gun?

the tab allows you to push it into the feedway of the gun and pul the cartridge into the feedway past the pawls. This prevents you from having to lift the top cover to load the belt. If you have a belt with no starter tab its a simple procedure of raising the top cover. placing the round under the extractor at the correct position and closing the top cover. Doing it this way prevents you from having to charge the gun twice to load a round. you do not need tabs.

They also make starter tabs for metal links. it is a long metal bar with a single loop in it. the browning metal links are designed to feed double loop into the gun first, and the starter tab attaches with its single loop to the double looped end of the browning link - you dont need these either, they just prevent you from having to raise your top cover

I think I have read of some people cutting a belt in the event of some gun malfunction. Are there misfire/other gun malfunction situations in which using links vs. a belt would be safer--in other words if you have to stop the gun feeding can you break the links easier vs. cutting the belt?

as stated, simply grab the belt and twist it which will prevent it from feeding and will immediately stop the gun. standard procedure for a runaway belt fed firearm using both cloth belts, or links.


unless you have a brass trunnion just use links. If you are allergic to mold, or musty smells or whatever just buy israeli .308 links - they work great and are easy to load by hand with no extra expensive tools needed

 

[zoom6zoom]

the cost and expense of a cloth belt loader usually drives most people to links.

Make that the cost of an original belt loader and I'll agree. You can build a belt loader that does a round at a time fairly cheaply. It's slower of course, but about twenty bucks in parts as compared to over a thousand.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

Make that the cost of an original belt loader and I'll agree. You can build a belt loader that does a round at a time fairly cheaply. It's slower of course, but about twenty bucks in parts as compared to over a thousand.

first off, im a belt guy. i own 2 original browning belt loaders 1 all steel, and 1 brass, and i own a colt hopper loader in 06, and a colt hopper loader in 765 argy

BUT i also tried the method of building the single round belt loader. it doesnt work fast enough, well enough, or consistent enough for my liking. to each his own i guess, but the single round belt loader is not an option for me. i can load israeli links by hand far faster with far more consistency in round seating depth.

While im certainly no expert, and you guys are free to do what you wish, i still advise all newbies to start out with israeli links and then advance to belts and im a belt guy at heart.

 

[kkkriverrats]

My .02

Check out "Get a woody for $5" in the belt loader section.

Not nearly as good as the real thing, but a lot cheaper. On a belt previously loaded, I can load a 100 round belt in about 10 minutes. Set up time is under 2 minutes.

I'm retired (my wife says retarded) so I have a lot more time than many of the rest of you.

The "woody" is CHEAP, and I like cheap, I can reload a lot of ammo for the $1,000 I could spend on a belt loading machine.

Although it's hard to put a price on pride of ownership, you like what you like.

I have both USGI 250 round and IMA 100's the USGI are superior, but the IMA have worked well for me.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

the main thing that i had trouble with the single round loader was not only the speed but the inconsistent seating depth.

The speed is a HUGE factor as well for me, but the main problem i had with it was seating depth was all over the place cause it just doesnt hold the belt like a factory belt loader does.

Next thing you know youre loading the belt into the gun and some pockets are stuffed looser than the others cause they are not consistently put in the belt at the same place, and as the belt is being pulled into the gun, rounds fall out, and or jam in the feedway. you dont have this problem with belts loaded with a proper belt loader.

i cant see how the wooden $5.00 loader will work any better at consistency, but if you guys say so.

maybe it was just the single round loader i had wasnt worth a crap? im sure some guys have gotten some to work well, but it hasnt been my experiance.

 

[kkkriverrats]

It's in the dimentions

I "built" 3 of these things before I got it right. If the stop ledge in the hole is at the right depth the belt bottoms on loader so the leading edge of the belt is about 1/16 inch below the case mouth. This seems to work well for me and my mutt 1919A4/A6 Saginaw/Izzy/OOW crossbreed.

In no way shape or form is this toy superior to a belt loader, I'm not John Browning, and after all, it's really just a piece of wood with a hole in it. It's an altertnative, nothing more or less.

Most of the time using belts you don't even need to use the handle. Really, all this does is hold the cartridge so you can use both hands to pull the belt over the cartridge.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

dont take me the wrong way riverrats
i have no doubt you made it work - i think thats awesome not to have to spend the money if you can make it work for $5.00

im just saying i got frustrated with it and went with a real brass 1918 loader and i havent looked back. since then ive bought a package deal that included a steel one, and i bought 2 1928 colt kits and they used to come with the colt hopper loader when you bought the parts kits.

if i could have gotten the thing to work, i probably would have stuck with it and just dealt with the speed issues

i need to clarify that i built one with the split nut and i could never get the thing to seat consistently which caused feed problems for me. now they have star wheel designs and all kinds of stuff that im sure stuff the belt proper, its just the original design i built mine from didnt work at all for me.

im not trying to insult anyone who doesnt have a real loader. im actually kind of jealous if you guys got yours to work for $5.00

 

[deepocean]

unless you have a brass trunnion just use links. If you are allergic to mold, or musty smells or whatever just buy israeli .308 links - they work great and are easy to load by hand with no extra expensive tools needed

The .308 links should work with 30-06 with no problem, right? I believe the case diameters are the same.

 

[deepocean]

dont take me the wrong way riverrats
i have no doubt you made it work - i think thats awesome not to have to spend the money if you can make it work for $5.00

im just saying i got frustrated with it and went with a real brass 1918 loader and i havent looked back. since then ive bought a package deal that included a steel one, and i bought 2 1928 colt kits and they used to come with the colt hopper loader when you bought the parts kits.

if i could have gotten the thing to work, i probably would have stuck with it and just dealt with the speed issues

i need to clarify that i built one with the split nut and i could never get the thing to seat consistently which caused feed problems for me. now they have star wheel designs and all kinds of stuff that im sure stuff the belt proper, its just the original design i built mine from didnt work at all for me.

im not trying to insult anyone who doesnt have a real loader. im actually kind of jealous if you guys got yours to work for $5.00

I've looked around, and dewat's two stage loader looks like a great design. I like the fact that he's gone through a lot of versions/improvements. Price-wise it's a lot cheaper than an original 1918 loader.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

if youre going to be shooting ONLY 06, then get 06 links - they are around $20.00 per thousand

if you plan to shoot .308, 8mm, and 762x54r on top of 06 then get the .308 israeli links

.308 has a larger neck than 06, 8mm, 54r or what have you so you can use the 308 links for 06 without issue

you can physically stuff .308 into the 06 links but MAN is it a TIGHT fit

buy some .308 israeli links first. you can get them for a reasonable price. that allows you to shoot and worry about stuffing the cloth belts later on. The first time you try to stuff a cloth belt by hand youll be ordering links ASAP just so you can shoot until you figure out a way to stuff the cloth belts.

I (like im sure most everyone here) said to myself at first - ahhh, ill suffer and just stuff the belts by hand - that didnt take but about 10 rounds before i changed my mind

the israeli links on the other hand are easy to stuff by hand. no tools required.
buy a large magnet and attach it to a stick and run the magnet across the ground to retrieve your links so you can reload them. links are reuseable over and over again.

 

[deepocean]

if youre going to be shooting ONLY 06, then get 06 links - they are around $20.00 per thousand

if you plan to shoot .308, 8mm, and 762x54r on top of 06 then get the .308 israeli links

.308 has a larger neck than 06, 8mm, 54r or what have you so you can use the 308 links for 06 without issue

you can physically stuff .308 into the 06 links but MAN is it a TIGHT fit

buy some .308 israeli links first. you can get them for a reasonable price. that allows you to shoot and worry about stuffing the cloth belts later on. The first time you try to stuff a cloth belt by hand youll be ordering links ASAP just so you can shoot until you figure out a way to stuff the cloth belts.

I (like im sure most everyone here) said to myself at first - ahhh, ill suffer and just stuff the belts by hand - that didnt take but about 10 rounds before i changed my mind

the israeli links on the other hand are easy to stuff by hand. no tools required.
buy a large magnet and attach it to a stick and run the magnet across the ground to retrieve your links so you can reload them. links are reuseable over and over again.

Using Israeli links would sure uncomplicate things for me. If I use links, I'm going to need a linker. If I had $200 or so to spend, what would you recommend?

With regard to 30-06, I have read the FAQ on the site, but I am confused as to which 30-06 barrel to buy. Some of the barrels listed mention working with Israeli kits, others mention USGI. I don't know enough about the internals to know, but I want to buy a few good quality 30-06 barrels. John doesn't have them at the moment. I want to figure out which ones are best so I know to grab them when I see them.

Have you ever had a 1919a4 with a chrome trunnion? I've heard they help with accuracy. Do they affect the function of links vs belts?

Thank you for answering my questions in detail.

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

Using Israeli links would sure uncomplicate things for me. If I use links, I'm going to need a linker. If I had $200 or so to spend, what would you recommend?

you do not need a linker to load with 308 links. its easy to load by hand.

With regard to 30-06, I have read the FAQ on the site, but I am confused as to which 30-06 barrel to buy. Some of the barrels listed mention working with Israeli kits, others mention USGI. I don't know enough about the internals to know, but I want to buy a few good quality 30-06 barrels. John doesn't have them at the moment. I want to figure out which ones are best so I know to grab them when I see them.

any barrel for a 1919 will work. the internals inside of an israeli 1919 .308 gun were at one time 30 06 USGI internals. The israelis modified them for use with .308 but they still work with 30 06. short answer though is any barrel for a 1919 will work with your internals no matter if you have USGI unmodified 30 06 internals, or original USGI internals modified to .308 by the israelis.
We sent the israelis the 1919s - they converted our 1919s to use .308, but they are still USGI parts - just modified to .308 use

Have you ever had a 1919a4 with a chrome trunnion? I've heard they help with accuracy.

yes i have an argentine 1919 with chrome trunnion. they didnt chrome the trunnions for accuracy so no

Do they affect the function of links vs belts?

chromed trunnions help with wear to the trunnion
most people when running links will buy a $15.00 trunnion protector which essentially does the same thing and can be removed when you want to run belts. i believe guiette manufacturing makes them - google

Thank you for answering my questions in detail.

my pleasure - feel free to ask anything you wish and if i know it ill be glad to help - if i dont, you can believe someone here will and will help

 

[B.A.R. gunner]

Using Israeli links would sure uncomplicate things for me. If I use links, I'm going to need a linker. If I had $200 or so to spend, what would you recommend?

i thought about this some more

links are one area where you COULD get away with using a wooden loader - much like the $5.00 riverrats posted. that could easily be made to work with links but check this out - if you are handy with tools this might be an option as well - be sure to click on the home built loaders link - some are just nails in wood
http://www.browningmgs.com/Linker.htm

if you havent seen Johns site yet, you should check it out too - it will answer alot of your questions
http://www.browningmgs.com/

 

[jmann]

I much prefer belts to links because of the speed in which the belts can be loaded and I hate having to pick up links. Belts are expensive and wear out, however, and the machines to load them with are both expensive and can be difficult for someone to set up that has no experience with them.
The original colt made brass tabbed belts only had 1 tab. I dont know why uncle sam switched to two tabs. I dislike 2 tabs because the second one interferes with the belt loader when you come to the end of the belt. Mabye they thought if the belt was damaged you could make 2 out of it. To me that seems like twice the time reloading the gun per 250 rounds and I imagine the damaged belts were rapidly dispensed with rather than reused in all but the most dire circumstances.
I would in no way personally consider running belts if I did not buy a belt loader. Trust me on this, these little machines are really a timesaver and as far as cost goes, the 1918 loader and 1917a1 tripod are sure to outpace the semi 1919's as far as an investment goes for years to come, unless legislation changes the status of the guns.