1919 A4 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking to try reloading. I have a decent pile of .308 brass laying around and the 'ol 1919 is expensive to feed. So, help me out. What's the best press to go with? I've seen Lee and RCBS locally, single vs progressive turrets and all manners of other stuff I'm not familiar with. For that matter, is it even cost effective? I don't need super-hand-loader 1 moa of accuracy, just want a few hundred rounds to blow off without see $$ fly out the end of the gun.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,115 Posts
a few things to think about

#1. reloading
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,337 Posts
Getting started

buy a used rcbs rockchucker or the equivalent off eBay for pennies on the dollar. it will cost you less than new junk, you can't break them and they will last a lifetime.
I reloaded on a RCBS Jr. for about 30 years, still use it in some cases, definetly the best way to start.

Besides buying a good reloading guide and reading it cover to cover the (NRA and Lyman have good basic manuals) several times before starting, you need to find some one locally who would be willing to let you observe the process. Try to pick someone who has been reloading for several years and still has all of his appendedges. I taught myself, not the best way to go. I started reloading straight wall rimmed pistol (.38 Special) target loads this is about as simple as it gets. Rifle caliber reloading is way more complicated, and much less forgiving.

Reloading is not for everyone, you need to have the time to devote, be attentive to details, and not inclined to short cut the process, and most important, understand what you are doing, and why you are doing it.

This is why you need to observe the process before deciding to jump in.

If you do not possess the temperment for reloading, do everyone a favor, including yourself, don't do it.

I enjoy reloading, it makes shooting more affordable even today when component prices have doubled and trippled in the last year.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,115 Posts
damn, it appears my last LONG response didnt make it - sorry about that, i guess it must have been too long?

i typed out a super long post giving suggestions for you - it took me 2 hours to type the stuff :(

ill try again later, but damn, thats depressing!!
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,337 Posts
I was wondering about the post

damn, it appears my last LONG response didnt make it - sorry about that, i guess it must have been too long?

i typed out a super long post giving suggestions for you - it took me 2 hours to type the stuff :(

ill try again later, but damn, thats depressing!!
Your stuff is usually well thought out, couldn't figure out the post.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,115 Posts
ill try and start again, only this time im going to split it up into a few different posts to keep from losing the long post again.
first off, let me start by saying i agree with riverrat 200% with everything he said about trying to find someone to show you whats involved before you start.

Let me be the very first here to say that
#1 - reloading rifle caliber cartridges SUCKS DELUXE!!
man do i EVER miss the days when hertenberger and radway green were $0.15 a round and portuguese was considered the lesser of the 3 ammo - back then youd be retarded to reload .308 - boy do i ever miss those days!!
i think that most people new to reloading think you can just spend a hundred or two on a reloading press and each pull of the lever results in one perfect cartridge or .308 or 06 ready to fire - i wish it were that simple
im going to break the steps down for you in order of how most people do them
#1. you need to spread case lube over each piece of brass, and with a cue tip brush the inside of the neck. ive tried every single magic concoction spray on formula like one shot, and it ruins your .308 or 06 brass - period. i switched to the one shot spray from advice on the net, and i stuck a case inside of my die in less than 10 rounds.on long cases like .308 or 06, in my experiance, you need a wax based lube like imperial sizing wax, or the lee sizing wax, or me personally i use ideal brand yellow 77 wire pulling lubricant and i resize the case wet. (im an electrician and just so happen to get the yellow 77 really cheap)
#2 after the case is wet with lube, you run it through your resizing die, and you deprime it in one step. it knocks the old primer out, and it shrinks the brass back down to a size that will reliably chamber inside of your auto loading firearm.
#3. now you want to run your cases through a media tumbler to clean the case lube off your cases, and to make the cases shiny. most people tumble with corn cob media, or walnut shell.
#4. after the cases have spent 3-4 hours in the tumbler, you are going to have to sift the media out of the inside of the cases (it fills up inside the bottle necked brass and you must get it all out). and you will take a dental pick and pick all the media out of the flash holes
#5. most people will then remove the primer crimp by swaging, or cutting the crimp out of the primer pocket next. most all military surplus brass has crimped in primer pockets so this is necessary. use a dillon super swage 600, or rcbs press mounted swager, or the L.E. wilson primer pocket cutter, or the lee chamfer tool to remove the crimp so you can insert a new primer into the pocket
#6. at this point most people uniform the primer pocket by taking a cutter and cutting the primer pocket so its exactly the same on each piece of brass with a little hand held cutter.
#7. some people also swear that the primer hole needs to be uniformed so you run a cutter on the inside of the case to remove any burrs from the flash hole inside and make them uniformed.
#8. now you have a case that has the primer crimp removed, and the primer pocket, and flash hole cleaned, now you need to trim the case to length. Each time you resize the brass, it makes the brass grow at the neck, and it absolutely must be trimmed to correct overall length or it becomes dangerous, so you break out your manual LE Wilson case trimmer and get to cranking which cuts the end of the case neck down to correct size. If you are lucky enough to own a powered trimmer, it greatly reduces this task,
#9. now you have a case that has been resized, and trimmed to the proper length, but the trimming has left a brass lip on the outside of the neck, and that must be removed, so you get out a chamfering tool of some sort and you cut the brass lip off the outside of the neck
#10. now you need to chamfer the inside of the neck slightly to allow the bullet to seat easily so you get a chamfer tool and cut a chamfer on the inside of the neck of the brass.
#11 now you need to add the primer - you can do this with a hand held priming tool that allows you to feel the seating of the primer much better, or you can do this on your press with some kind of press mounted primer seater
#12 - now you are going to add the correct charge of powder from your load data that you got by looking at load data from the powder manufacturer, and a few different reloading manuals. you can just dump powder into the case from a funnel and a powder scooper duper, or for super accurate loads you can throw light charges and trickle a few grains up to weight for each case, or go as far as getting an automatic powder dispenser that will count up the charge on a scale.
#13 - now you insert a bullet, but you need to make sure it meets the correct over all length. a bullet pressed to far into the case can cause your gun to blow up, and a bullet no pressed far enough into the case can cause your gun to blow up. you must check your over all length with a caliper, or a case gauge, or something along them lines to make certain everything is within specs.
#14 - now you are going to crimp the bullet to the case

all that for 1 round of rifle ammo utilizing a fired case - you can alot of those steps if you buy new brass, but your goal is to save money, and buying new brass isnt going to save you money.
so, you should be able to see that reloading for rifle caliber cartridges is FAR more involved than pulling the handle on a progressive press and out pops a single cartridge ready to shoot. It just dont work that way on rifle cartridges cause of the extreme case prep required.
look at this, and see that reloading APPEARS to save you money - BUT, the hidden cost is the expense of your time. If your time isnt worth much money to you and you have more time than money, reloading for rifle may well be for you. If you have more money than time, then reloading rifle aint gonna work for you and will be a huge pain in the ass to you.

so, i gotta agree 200% see if you can find someone locally to show you the ropes before offloading ANY money.
ill give you suggestions on gear next post
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks so far. Looks like a lot of work. From what I've read, Carbide dies mean you can skip the Cleaning/lube step. True, or marketing BS?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
Reloading

All of us who have been reloaders for over 40 years or so and still ahve all of the stuff we were born with, have different opinions on what works for them, for example, as a ccost saving method to lube your cases,hint, hint, paper towels wetted out with STP or similiar stuff makes a good case lube but the Dillon Carbides are not lube free! Overbore
 

· Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Most rifle cartridges can be reloaded easily on a progressive, but for some reason, I guess the ratio of the thickness of the brass to the overall length or something, .308/7.62 NATO just does not seem to work smoothly in a progressive no matter how much lube you use. My experience is that I got three or four times more sticking cases causing enough vibration to actually shake out powder than with other cartridges. I just use a single-stage Lee press for .308.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,337 Posts
Depends

Thanks so far. Looks like a lot of work. From what I've read, Carbide dies mean you can skip the Cleaning/lube step. True, or marketing BS?
Cleaning is a must, otherwise the dies will get scratched and the brass will get scratched. Plus, the finished product will look like ****.

Straight wall pistol cartridges do not need to be lubed before resizing they have carbide/titanimun nitride ring that is so hard that the brass dosen't gall and stick.

All of my dies for rifle caliber require lubing, but some of them are over 20 years old lot of things happened over the last 20. Carbide inside neck sizer button will eniminate inside neck lubing. Lubing with spray only takes a second or two, stick one case, which you will eventually, and you will curse yourself for your stupidity. I know this because I've seen me do it.

A good basic reloading manual(see previous post) is the key to getting started. Can't stress this enough.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Reloading.

Everyone before me has had very good points,you might want to make friends with a competent and experienced handloader who pays attention to the details of the reloading hobby, preferably someone who turns out clean professional looking ammo that always feeds and fires. Some hands on training might be a big help if you have never loaded ammunition before.:rolleyes:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I tried to find someone here locally to show me how to reload, see my post from about 2 weeks ago. I did not get any replies. Sounds like progressive presses and .308 don't get along so well, but other than that, anything to watch out for?
 

· Mouse Machine Works
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
I tried to find someone here locally to show me how to reload, see my post from about 2 weeks ago. I did not get any replies. Sounds like progressive presses and .308 don't get along so well, but other than that, anything to watch out for?

Progressive presses and rifle calibers are fine, it will work as slick as oiled glass if you do your part.
The best advice I can give you is this.
1. Buy a Rockchucker.
2. Start loading straight wall pistol ammo, when you thoroughly understand the process move on.
3. Buy a current reloading manual and follow it.
4. Take nothing for granted and assume nothing.
5. If a primer won't go in STOP!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok Mouse, you seem to like the Rockchucker, but why? First love, or did you have a bad time with the others? They seem a bit more expensive than the others at first glance.
 

· Mouse Machine Works
Joined
·
1,681 Posts
Ok Mouse, you seem to like the Rockchucker, but why? First love, or did you have a bad time with the others? They seem a bit more expensive than the others at first glance.
They're like your favorite hammer they never wear out and they always work.
I have yet to see or hear of anybody wearing out a Rockchucker. Buy one and your grandkids will be teaching their kids how to use it.

Don't skimp on quality when buying a tool, good tools cost more but they're worth it.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,337 Posts
Single stage press

I think what all of us are trying to say is start out with a single stage press, there are less thing going on at any given time making it easier to understand what's going right or wrong.

I just happen to have a RCBS Jr. there are other quality tools out there. Mouse is right, after 35 or so years, I'm still using mine, and I am convinced that it will out last me. It's aging much more gracefully than I.

FA/SA shooters use a lot of ammo, it's Charlie's 2nd Law of the Universe "Ammunition consumption is in a direct ratio to the size of the belt/magazine/drum, or bushel basket attached to the weapon"

At some point you will need to speed up the process, or quit work to have enough time to reload on a single stage. I have been using a Dillon 550 for about 4 years and it produces just as good ammo, for my purposes, as the RCBS and a lot faster. I have a Dillon because I got a really good deal on a used one, by used I mean less than 200 rounds. There are other high production tools out there, and their owners swear by them.

Oh, and if you are interested, Charlies 1st law of the Universe is "All salad dressing, if left in the back of the ice box long enough, will become Thousand Island"
 

· Registered
Joined
·
7,844 Posts
...always be SAFETY conscious..

Everyone has given good advise. Only wish to add my 2 cents. I've taught over 300 people how to reload and have been reloading on a commercial basis for 32 yrs....have Dillon 1050's,650's,CAMDEX full auto and several STAR machines. What do I teach on...? The LEE "O" frame single stage press as found in the 'Anniversery Special'...usually about $120.00 I add a die set of their choice...pistol (always carbide) or rifle and a bullet puller for $150.00. This is the best way I have found to start someone into reloading. Its easy, cheap (inexpensive),and will do everything in rifle or pistol...except .50 BMG. I keep one in the shop to teach on and use it to size all my rifle cases before I throw them through one of the Dillons. Yes...get a tumbler too....need to have clean cases before you put 'em through the dies. Books...? First one should be the 'LYMAN' # 48. Its the most comprehensive manual available and the first 120 pages or so are a reloading course. I used this as my text book before the NRA had a standard reloading course made up. There are others more specific to each bullet,powder or reloading equipment...but the LYMAN is the best overall. Read,practice,go slow,learn the procedures,always be safe and know the nomenclature of your parts/pieces. ASK QUESTIONS
 

· Registered
Joined
·
561 Posts
L99

Just to have fun with you, I use my original Pacific Pro O single stager for all resizings for lo these past 39 years or so. Heavy cast iron and no signs of wear after about 10 k though it. Cordially, Overbore
 

· Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
well, i have only been reloading about 2yrs and i have to say that LEE makes pretty nice stuff, and for someone on a budget i say its a good way to go. im about 6k rnds in on a LEE manual indexing turret press, with not a single problem yet *yet i say*:rolleyes: and one advantage i have found with this press while repriming 223 crimped pockets is no need to do anything to the pocket besides clean it a lil with my lee primer pocket cleaning tool, the press will push a cci primer right in a crimped pocket with no fuss at all...and all i can say is that it works for me on my press and saved me the $$ from buyin swaging and crimp removing tools, and a real time saver....sorry i know the original question was about 308 reloading ,but LEE makes pretty nice stuff....i also ramble when i type, ...yes like everyone has already said reloading isnt for everyone, and prolly wont save you $$$ at first, but it pays for its self and then some once you get going.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top