Something I saw on TV about silencers
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Never, ever, ever, EVER believe anything about guns in a network TV show.
That being said, I suppose it would be possible for a homemade suppressor to alter the ballistic markings on a round. ONCE.
If the round contacted the suppressor, it would destroy the suppressor. Probably would be real exciting for the shooter, too.
I saw the same thing mentioned on CSI the other night, but I think it was a 9mm then.
That being said, I suppose it would be possible for a homemade suppressor to alter the ballistic markings on a round. ONCE.
If the round contacted the suppressor, it would destroy the suppressor. Probably would be real exciting for the shooter, too.
I saw the same thing mentioned on CSI the other night, but I think it was a 9mm then.
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Proper industry term is "suppressors". Even some of the manufactures are not up on this, LOL! Nothing really "silences" a weapon or a projectile, though some do a better job than others, the reality is being to obscure the sound "signature" to the firer of the weapon. Back to your original question though, depending upon the design, (remember most bullets SHOULD not contact the baffles within the suppressor) if it is homemade, or an early design, the bullet MAY have additional marks ( besides the rifling of that particular weapon) on it IF it is recovered, possibly making it hard to determine which particular weapon fired said projectile.
CSI stuff, to be sure.
Just my .02
Dan
CSI stuff, to be sure.
Just my .02
Dan
have heard of one case where the guy that made a homemade suppressor useing tennis balls as the baffles and chambers did get caught because the picked up some of the residue off the victim from the tennis balls and did trace the building of the home made suppressor back to the shooter ........forgot to get rid of the tennis balls he didn't use lol and the found them with a search warrant and the fiber's on the victum was an exat match as the tennis balls i know sounds csi but was an actual case
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Altering the balistic signature of a slug is not difficult, if you plan it out ahead of time.
You use a barrel extension, threaded and made using the same type of barrel as that of the host firearm. A 4-6 inch threaded extension, with its rifling intact is sufficient. The firearm essentially just looks like if you extended its barrel length.
As the bullet passes from the original host barrel, it has the unique rifling from that barrel. However, as it passes into the barrel extension with different rifling, the original rifling markings on the bullet are damaged and altered, then replaced with that of the barrel extension rifling.
Obviously, this only affects the forensic evidence related to the slug. It does not impact or affect the evidence related to the spent shell or casing.
In that case, you must also replace the bolt, firing pin and extractor. In a pistol like a colt 1911, you have to go as far as replacing the entire slide, firing pin, extractor and barrel.
That said, I don't see why someone want's to do this other than to kill someone and then to make identification of the firearm impossible or difficult. Let me be clear, I do not condone killing anyone...Unless you caught him in bed with your wife, then maybe...
It's a good thing that murderers aren't that bright and two, that they never really think it out before they do it.
You use a barrel extension, threaded and made using the same type of barrel as that of the host firearm. A 4-6 inch threaded extension, with its rifling intact is sufficient. The firearm essentially just looks like if you extended its barrel length.
As the bullet passes from the original host barrel, it has the unique rifling from that barrel. However, as it passes into the barrel extension with different rifling, the original rifling markings on the bullet are damaged and altered, then replaced with that of the barrel extension rifling.
Obviously, this only affects the forensic evidence related to the slug. It does not impact or affect the evidence related to the spent shell or casing.
In that case, you must also replace the bolt, firing pin and extractor. In a pistol like a colt 1911, you have to go as far as replacing the entire slide, firing pin, extractor and barrel.
That said, I don't see why someone want's to do this other than to kill someone and then to make identification of the firearm impossible or difficult. Let me be clear, I do not condone killing anyone...Unless you caught him in bed with your wife, then maybe...
It's a good thing that murderers aren't that bright and two, that they never really think it out before they do it.
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Ever watch CSI Miami? See all that high tech and nifty equipment, labs etc. they have on the show?
If you walked into the crime labs for Miami Dade Police, you would have a hard time believing that is a crime lab. They do have some high tech equipment, but nothing even remotely like on the show.
They do have an enormous fuming box, it's about 6 foot tall and 4x4 wide and deep. I can't think of what the heck they have such a large fuming box for.......
This was a case in Biloxi MS. in the mid to late 80's or early 90's. It was a real case and I believe the mayor and his wife of the town were the victims. It had to do with a large crime ring.......
I have head of suppressors using a rubber bushing that contacted the bullet as it exited the suppressor. I think it did cause accessory problems. This type of bushing could cause marks on the bullet and change the ballistic markings. I think that type of suppressor came with a special punch to make new bushings when the old ones wore out.
If real crime solving was like CSI, the clearance rate for murder would be higher than the 64% that the FBI reports.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offcleared/03-NC.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offcleared/03-NC.html
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Yes, Many Surpressors Using The Old Syoniks Designe . Made Originaly By Mitch Warbell , Used A Rubber Wipe As It Is Called, It Is A Subber Disk, Desiged To Have The Bullet Pass Through This Rubber Disk. Its Intent Was To Lower Gas Discharge, By Assuming That The Disk Would Close, Up After The Bullet Leaves The Gun. To Make It Quieter In My Own Tests A New Wipe Will Lower The Sound Signiture But They Weare Out Quickly From Bullets Passing Through Them And Enlarging The Hole That Eventually Stops Closing Up This Will Dfenetly Leave Additional Marks, And Change The Sound Signiture Of A Gun. The Original Designe Of This Type Of Silencer Was Made In The Early 1960's And Used In Viet Nam. They Made These Surpressors With Wipe's In 45, 9.. 22 And 308 For The M14 And All With A Rupper Disk Usually Of Neopreen Rupper About 1/4 Inch Thick I Have Several Of Each Type And Still Use Them And Still Sell Them All New Curent Type Surpressors Are Made To Be Used With Out Rubber Wipe's THE 22 SURPRESSORS HADF TWO RUBBER WIPES ONE IN FRONT OF THE MUZZEL IN THE BACK OF THE TUBE AND ONE IN FRONT THIS WOULD DEFENEYTLY SCREW UP ANY BALISTIC MARKINGS RIGHT OUT OF THE BARREL THE BULLETS LOOK POLISHED AFTER PASING THROUGH 1/2 INCH OF SOLID RUBBER THE LEAD LOOKES BUFFED. BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT THE HELL DO I KNOW MY BEST TO ALL
Harold Gelchinsky
Birchwood Manor Ordnance
CIII Dealer FFL
Harold Gelchinsky
Birchwood Manor Ordnance
CIII Dealer FFL
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Harold,
You beat me to the story, thank you. The Sionics worked well on 22/9mm/45 ACP, fired a few in late 80's. Heard not so well on M-14, least that's what some old Rangers tell me.
You beat me to the story, thank you. The Sionics worked well on 22/9mm/45 ACP, fired a few in late 80's. Heard not so well on M-14, least that's what some old Rangers tell me.
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822 Posts
Don't believe a lot of CSI-- BS !!!
After being on the Chicago Fire Departmrnt for over 23 years-- Gunshot wounds are a common place ailment -- Both self inflicted; accidental or otherwise and the usual shoot em up gangbanger nonsense-- The only thing that is true is most of the time the gangsters either shoot themselves or an innocent person-- Even mob hitmen mess it up all the time I am posting an article down below of a run I was on a long time ago-- Mob guy shot several times in his head with a .22 silenced auto pistol-- Bullets bounced off his skull because the suppressor slowed the bullet down so much that the bullet did not penetrate his skull-- Messy but nothing a few 4x4's and kerlix didn't cure- until he was at the hospital where the fed's wisked him away--
His Name was Ken Eto-- and he died from natural causes several years ago--
Mobster 'Tokyo Joe' is deadEto survived 1983 assassination attempt
By Chuck Goudie
June 7, 2006 (Last Updated: 6:28:50 PM) - One of Chicago's most well known mobsters has died. He lived a much longer life than the mob intended. Ken Eto survived a mob hit back in 1983 when the bullets that were meant to kill him bounced off his head.
Related Links
Watch the Video
The failed assassination convinced Eto to cooperate with prosecutors. But now, more than 20 years after the botched hit, there is still a mystery surrounding the death of Ken Eto. ABC7 investigative reporter Chuck Goudie takes a look at the mob mystery in this Intelligence Report.
When Ken Eto lived through the gangland hit, everybody knew about it. Bullets rebounding from someone's head makes for lead story news. When Eto died more than two years ago of natural causes, almost nobody knew about it and it wasn't on the news until the I-Team reported it Wednesday afternoon. His was a life cloaked in mobdom, even ending in mystery.
"Toyko Joe," as he was known, was one of the most colorful, well-known characters of Chicago mob lore, a gambling boss who ran a $200,000 a week bolita empire.
"He was a trusted moneymaker, he'd been around for a long time and actually had kind of a reputation as a violent sort of person," said Elaine smith, former FBI agent.
Elaine Smith worked Ken Eto cases for the FBI in Chicago for more than 20 years. We interviewed her a few years ago before she retired and Eto died. In a business not known for longevity, the fact that Tokyo Joe lived to age 84 was remarkable. He was supposed to have died in an alleyway on February 10th, 1983, a few weeks before sentencing on gambling-related charges.
Outfit bosses, fearing Eto might spill mob secrets to avoid prison, ordered him killed. Hitman Jasper Campise and Cook County Deputy Sheriff John Gattuso were deployed to carry out the murder. But somehow, three .22 caliber bullets ricocheted off Eto's skull and he survived. A few months later, the bungling assassins were themselves killed.
Eto opted to become a government informant and special agent smith interrogated him for months, then helped prepare him for federal prosecutions that put away police officials and mob bosses.
During his cooperation, Smith says Eto admitted to a role in four murders.
"He didn't participate in these murders, he set the people up," Smith said.
Eto lived out his days in the federal witness security program under the assumed name Joe Tanaka from Iowa. But on January 23, 2004, he died, a mobster at heart.
"Imagine what it would be like on a day-to-day basis and always show respect and always do what they said to do, unquestioning, with people that are dumb, immoral, selfish, corrupt individuals," Smith said.
Elaine Smith attended a memorial service for Eto after he passed at his Georgia home in 2004. Even at that service, the dearly departed was known as Joe Tanaka, restaurateur.
But by whatever name, Tokyo Joe left behind six children, most of them still carrying the Eto name, a name that their father couldn't live with for the last portion of his life.
After being on the Chicago Fire Departmrnt for over 23 years-- Gunshot wounds are a common place ailment -- Both self inflicted; accidental or otherwise and the usual shoot em up gangbanger nonsense-- The only thing that is true is most of the time the gangsters either shoot themselves or an innocent person-- Even mob hitmen mess it up all the time I am posting an article down below of a run I was on a long time ago-- Mob guy shot several times in his head with a .22 silenced auto pistol-- Bullets bounced off his skull because the suppressor slowed the bullet down so much that the bullet did not penetrate his skull-- Messy but nothing a few 4x4's and kerlix didn't cure- until he was at the hospital where the fed's wisked him away--
His Name was Ken Eto-- and he died from natural causes several years ago--
Mobster 'Tokyo Joe' is deadEto survived 1983 assassination attempt
By Chuck Goudie
June 7, 2006 (Last Updated: 6:28:50 PM) - One of Chicago's most well known mobsters has died. He lived a much longer life than the mob intended. Ken Eto survived a mob hit back in 1983 when the bullets that were meant to kill him bounced off his head.
Related Links
Watch the Video
The failed assassination convinced Eto to cooperate with prosecutors. But now, more than 20 years after the botched hit, there is still a mystery surrounding the death of Ken Eto. ABC7 investigative reporter Chuck Goudie takes a look at the mob mystery in this Intelligence Report.
When Ken Eto lived through the gangland hit, everybody knew about it. Bullets rebounding from someone's head makes for lead story news. When Eto died more than two years ago of natural causes, almost nobody knew about it and it wasn't on the news until the I-Team reported it Wednesday afternoon. His was a life cloaked in mobdom, even ending in mystery.
"Toyko Joe," as he was known, was one of the most colorful, well-known characters of Chicago mob lore, a gambling boss who ran a $200,000 a week bolita empire.
"He was a trusted moneymaker, he'd been around for a long time and actually had kind of a reputation as a violent sort of person," said Elaine smith, former FBI agent.
Elaine Smith worked Ken Eto cases for the FBI in Chicago for more than 20 years. We interviewed her a few years ago before she retired and Eto died. In a business not known for longevity, the fact that Tokyo Joe lived to age 84 was remarkable. He was supposed to have died in an alleyway on February 10th, 1983, a few weeks before sentencing on gambling-related charges.
Outfit bosses, fearing Eto might spill mob secrets to avoid prison, ordered him killed. Hitman Jasper Campise and Cook County Deputy Sheriff John Gattuso were deployed to carry out the murder. But somehow, three .22 caliber bullets ricocheted off Eto's skull and he survived. A few months later, the bungling assassins were themselves killed.
Eto opted to become a government informant and special agent smith interrogated him for months, then helped prepare him for federal prosecutions that put away police officials and mob bosses.
During his cooperation, Smith says Eto admitted to a role in four murders.
"He didn't participate in these murders, he set the people up," Smith said.
Eto lived out his days in the federal witness security program under the assumed name Joe Tanaka from Iowa. But on January 23, 2004, he died, a mobster at heart.
"Imagine what it would be like on a day-to-day basis and always show respect and always do what they said to do, unquestioning, with people that are dumb, immoral, selfish, corrupt individuals," Smith said.
Elaine Smith attended a memorial service for Eto after he passed at his Georgia home in 2004. Even at that service, the dearly departed was known as Joe Tanaka, restaurateur.
But by whatever name, Tokyo Joe left behind six children, most of them still carrying the Eto name, a name that their father couldn't live with for the last portion of his life.
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On the subject of subsonic heavy bullets !!
I once had a person who was shot by the Chicago Police department --Pointblank with a 9mm Glock The bullet bounced off the guys neck --- He was screaming and waving a gun and when he pointed the gun he got shot- The bullet hit the edge of the neck and glanced off-- It was a 147 Grain
9mm federal hydroshok which was CPD issue at the time !!
I once had a person who was shot by the Chicago Police department --Pointblank with a 9mm Glock The bullet bounced off the guys neck --- He was screaming and waving a gun and when he pointed the gun he got shot- The bullet hit the edge of the neck and glanced off-- It was a 147 Grain
9mm federal hydroshok which was CPD issue at the time !!
I have been on a tour of the TBI lab in Memphis with my sons Cub Scout den. They do have some high tech goodies. However, they have to fax fingerprints to Nashville for checking. Seems the state can only afford one terminal...
Looks to me like, with Memphis having one of the highest violent crime rates in the country, they would put the terminal HERE.
Looks to me like, with Memphis having one of the highest violent crime rates in the country, they would put the terminal HERE.
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What would really be impressive is that all those 64% of murders would be solved in an hour, to boot!!!
Do ya think the TV LIED?!?!?
(And yes, I enjoy watching CSI- but it IS a TV show. I like watching Ghost Whisperer, too, but that doesn't mean I see dead people... )
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Getting the barrel extension perfectly aligned might be a bit difficult, and if it's just a tiny bit off you could have real problems. It would be much easier to just get a replacement barrel and dispose of the spare barrel after use. As for the casing - rather than changing all the parts that could affect it, just pick up your brass and take it with you. (Or figure out some sort of brass catcher, or use a revolver.)
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How about use a revolver of some lightweight alloy and then melt it down with a map torch lol the point here is that there are a hundred and 1 solutions to this problem on the 102 solution just needs to be thought up and so on and so on. Hence why people have to be punshied and not the tools.
Does anyone remember in the 80s the name of that company that made a bushing that would clamp to a 10/22 or Mk 1 ruger. then at would allow you to screw on a plastic soda bottle for a home made thing ? I thought it was stupid back then if not illegal ,but it did work for about 5 shots. My class 3 Mac ten i had back then had that rubber scraper thing in the end of the silencer ,what a pain , The gun by Cobray ,was cheap built ,and i sold it to my class 3 and he unloaded it to a sheriffs dept in Texas,
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