[Cpt_Kirks]

Will the Allied Armament FA kits kill off legal SA 1919's?

http://1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807

I think they might. The whole approval of SA 1919's is based on the fact that FA parts won't work in them. That just changed.

The fact that there are dozens of coversion designs for other guns is irrelevant. This is new and the powers that be ban things at the drop of a hat. Look at the "barrel ban". That came out of thin air with a reinterpretation of an existing regulation.

I may be paranoid on this. I really hope I am.

 

[loboslanding]

Cpt, do the fa conversions have to be registered just like any other fa? I'm not a licensing guru so can the kits only be bought by specially licensed mfgrs that do post samples (or whatever you call them)?

AA is requiring a law enforcement letter so it sounds like not just anyone can buy the parts.

BATFE knows there's no big secret to making a semi fa...I'd like to hope and believe they won't be unfair with us that strive to stay legal.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Well, as I said in the deleted thread, what we have here is a potential perception problem.

Guns are a political hot topic. In the long run, only abortion causes more BS.

The fact that these parts even exist and are available for sale makes us vulnerable. The SOT hoops don't mean squat to the average Joe. They all think machine guns are "illegal", anyway.

 

[BEFU]

You can still buy new drop in auto sears and lightning links for AR-15's that will make them full auto, just have to have proper SOT classification with law enforcement demonstation letter (or whatever it is that you need that I do not possess!)

Semi ar15's are not going anywhere soon I believe.

making guns run FA has never been a problem, just doing it legally has been an issue. I think the 1919 would be the same.

My $.02

Brian

 

[brassmagnet]

I understand the concern, but as I also stated in the deleted thread, converting a semi to F/A is a piece of cake to any knowledgable skilled machinest. BATFE does know that as Lobo said. However, knowing it and doing it are two different apples. Having registered parts that are available only to licenced SOT holders is no worse than DLO having plates available to them (which they used to I am told). Only the authorized can buy them, just as these parts from AA. Unlike having M-16 parts with an AR or something of that sort, these parts from AA are simply NOT AVAILABLE to an unlicensed person, so having them together won't be an issue as I see it.

As our guns stand, they are Semi Auto and cannot be changed without unlawful machining - that wouldn't change with these parts being available. Like Capt said - everyone thinks these are machineguns anyhow, but they see different when we shoot them. No matter what, some are gonna look down on us and say we can convert these. Offering a legal avenue of parts won't change that or make it worse.

I don't really see why anyone would need these if wanting to build F/A, cause F/A plates (unfinished) are also readily available, internals are cheaper unmachined, etc., but I guess there is a market for everything.

That's my Thursday morning ramble....the floor is open

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

If you recall, semi AR15's were practically banned recently, for 10 years.

Laws change. Regulations change. Interpretations change.

On mg42.us, we "renamed" the SA MG42 the "SA42", just to give people a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[brassmagnet]

Clinton tried to ban over 26 "black" type rifles as I recall. AR's never made it, but required using US made parts, as did many of the AK's, FAL's, etc. This had nothing to do with F/A - it had to do with an anti gun president and strong anti gun lobbying with it.

I don't remember ever reading that F/A parts are legally available for AR's, so let's ban them on that premise. Someone please correct me on this if I missed reading it somewhere....

 

[DOUBLE8]

You are WAY overly paranoid!!! While i wish they would ban SA 1919 so you guys would quit buyin up all my parts kits and ammo HA, no seriously, its not gonna effect you and your guns. Not untill some dumbass finds out what these parts look like, figures on tryin it then gets caught, THEN youll loose your guns, ALRIGHT i'll quit, just kiddin again. (i want you guys to quit buyin all my parts and ammo BAD)

Theres no difference in this conversion and all the ones out there. The AR15 is the EASIEST gun in the world to convert to FA but they sell thousands every week. Dont worry, but quit buyin ammo and parts kits just incase.

 

[glockhead]

you can buy

a f/a side plate for $75.00 and slap that bad boy together. if you are dumb enough to do it, you better have the $250k and the ten years

 

[none123]

This is no different than a converted uzi bolt post sample. now as to why anyone would buy one when it would be cheaper to just build it on a 3/16 sideplate as JMB intended is what confuses me.

And I think the ak would be considered the easiest to convert.. there are shoelaces everywhere..lol

 

[Allied Armament]

Just like many of you have acknowledged, there are many drop in auto parts for semiauto guns. AR-15s, HKs, Norrel trigger packs, etc... There all NFA items and only licensed dealers are legally able to own them. Its when the home builder brakes the law that they are liable for their own actions.

 

[loboslanding]

Like I said, I'm no licensing guru...what does SOT stand for?

 

[Allied Armament]

S.O.T. Special Occupation Tax, its the tax you pay when your an 01 dealer or 07 manufacture to be able to deal in NFA National Firearms Act weapons. Trust me I hated when people would say SOT because I never knew what it meant.

 

[Upandatum]

One example of SOT is the $200 you pay for the ATF tax stamp..

ie...

-- Find a transferable NFA item... (ie.. FA 1919 on a form 4)
-- Pay for item... Get finger prints.. Get pasoport photo's (2 i think)
-- Fill out new form 4 (dealer must be able to deal in class 3 weapons)
-- get law enforcement approval..
-- send form 4 and $200 to ATF..
-- wait 6 months.. (and wait some more)
-- recieve approved form 4 with a SOT stamp on it..
-- take form 4 to class 3 dealer and pickup weapon...
-- ** Keep copy of form 4 with weapon **

Been awhile but I think that recaps it...

 

[BigMac]

Clinton tried to ban over 26 "black" type rifles as I recall. AR's never made it, but required using US made parts, as did many of the AK's, FAL's, etc. This had nothing to do with F/A - it had to do with an anti gun president and strong anti gun lobbying with it.

I don't remember ever reading that F/A parts are legally available for AR's, so let's ban them on that premise. Someone please correct me on this if I missed reading it somewhere....

I do beilieve it was Bush senior that banned the 26 specific guns and Clinton banned importation of specific stuff.

Lets not forget Bush signed the first federal assault weapons ban... not clinton and Regan signed the machine gun ban.

 

[brassmagnet]

You are correct - I was more concerned with the hoopla over offering the parts - I stand corrected. Thanks...

 

[hkg3k]

Will the Allied Armament FA kits kill off legal SA 1919's?

http://1919a4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807

I think they might. The whole approval of SA 1919's is based on the fact that FA parts won't work in them. That just changed.

The fact that there are dozens of coversion designs for other guns is irrelevant. This is new and the powers that be ban things at the drop of a hat. Look at the "barrel ban". That came out of thin air with a reinterpretation of an existing regulation.

I may be paranoid on this. I really hope I am.

Uh, no.

One of the critera for BATF approval of the 1919 designs was the design could not allow UNALTERED full auto parts to fit up to a semi-only receiver. BATF has NEVER stated that a semi gun be designed and built in such a manner that it can't be converted to full auto.........and you know why? That would be asking the impossible. So, on of the things BATF requires for a semi design to be approved, is the unaltered full auto parts must not fit.

Now if someone makes a collection of parts to fit a semi receiver and allow full auto fire, they have to be a licensed manufacturer and the parts registered within 24 hours of their making.......or they're simply breaking the law and have nothing more than contraband.

As has been stated a couple of times in this thread, this scenario is exactly like conversion parts for semi AR15s, HKs, AKs, SKSs, Uzis, etc, etc. And btw, there are many SOTs who make and register for their own use conversion parts for semi guns which tend to be rare so as not to have to register the receiver as a post sample and devalue it. This is done a lot with HKs.......Model 94 semis are a LOT more valuable than a post sample converted 94. 1919 post samples bring less than semis.

One more thing. Eric at Lakeside Machine has been offering registered post sample full auto drop in converstion parts for the semi Tippman guns (1919, 1917, M2HB) for years now. No problem there either.

I think your paranoia got the better of you on this one.

hkg3k

 

[kwilal]

The AR15 is the EASIEST gun in the world to convert to FA but they sell thousands every week.

Don't forget the Plug & Play capabilities of the M1 carbine to M2.
Ken

 

[DOUBLE8]

Havent heard of that one?

 

[slowfire]

One example of SOT is the $200 you pay for the ATF tax stamp..

that is not a SOT........SOT is for you to be able to make NFA weapons on a commerical basis. the 200 dollars you pay is a one time tax to be able to either make, or transfer a NFA weapon