The finish....leaves a lot to be desired.

4791 Views 24 Replies 15 Participants Last post by KevinT, Aug 2, 2006

Chad G

Discussion Starter · Jul 25, 2006

Nevermind the smashed trunion & pintle pad rivets as I havent had time to dress them, my main goal was to smash them into the chamfers. The lower plate rivets certainly are ugly

, I had a hell of time keeping the Air compressor running w/o tripping the breakers, the first rivets 3 are kinda okay they are rounderer. I had to smack the remaining rivets with punches and hammers to get them to fill the chamfers. I am very please with the gun but unhappy that the air hammer got away from me 2 times and left those stinkin smilie faces

Ahhhh the joys, I lost the rear sight detent waffer, musta fell out during the hammering, I got 1 more rivet left.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2298/img1649dr4.jpg The gun, the rest are finish pics.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8584/img1650bz0.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5868/img1651be7.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3397/img1652oc4.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/707/img1653ur4.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8430/img1654ws0.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9483/img1655fc9.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5696/img1656jj3.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1886/img1657tr4.jpg

Anyway, does anyone have an idea as to how to remove these dents or am I S.O.L.? My Dad asked if it would be easier to remove the lower plate buy a new one and redo the whole riveting procedure

Ummmm NO!

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

URAR1004

· #2 · Jul 25, 2006

Chad, believe it or not I’ve seen worse! Once you sand blast it and park it, it shouldn’t be too noticeable, don’t sweat the details. Once your shooting you won't notice it. The trunion pad rivets and the large rivet should be ground flush. Looks good!

Ferfunwoody

· #3 · Jul 25, 2006

When using the air hammer,don't let up until it comes to a complete stop.You don't need a new bottom plate.I'f your not happy with the looks, drill them out and put new ones in.IF you need more,let me know.Free of charge!Glad to see another home build on the forum.

Finalygotabeltfed

· #4 · Jul 25, 2006

Here's what you do.

Use a die grinder with a medium grit wheel and grind off the rivets, and punch them out. Clean up the outside of the bottom plate and start over with a good compressor.

The rivets are soft enough that it only takes one or two bursts with the airgun to set the bottom plate rivets. Another thing is to leave enough of the rivet to form a good head on them. This means, leave 1& 1/2 the diameter of the rivet sticking out. If you heat them to almost orange, using a MAP gas torch, they will form nicely. You have to watch how much pressure you use for the air gun and also how hard you push on it.....and keep it straight when doing the rivet so it doesn't slip off the head. Practice makes perfect in this area.

Buy a box of 3/16 rivets and practice on a piece of scrap steel before you start doing your gun again. You will find that after doing a dozen or so, your skill will increase and you will make fewer mistakes on your gun.

Most of the marks you have on your gun can be removed using the appropriate wheels on a die grinder( available from Harbor Freight tools for $29.99). There is one on sale there now, down from $39.99 and it includes some wheels and quick attachment head. I just ordered one a few minutes ago myself.
After you buff out the marks, bead blasting or sandblasting will remove even
more of them and smoothe out the surface evenly.

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Poverty Ridge

· #5 · Jul 25, 2006

dont wory about it

Just tell anyone asking about it that it was done during the war and it is pure history or just kick their butt for commenting--- How it shoots is more important than cosmetics.

Chris

· #6 · Jul 25, 2006

If you're concerned about the appearance...

1. Drill them out & redo. You can entirely remove the side plate and then flat sand it on some paper taped to a flat surface.

2. Mask the side plate with duct tape as well as the areas around the rivets. If you aren't into the effort or don't have a punch set, you can use several of those little rings that keep the holes in notebook paper from tearing.

3. You can't possibly expect to be good at something you've never done. Sometimes it happens but most times not. Get a bag of rivets from McMaster-Carr and a 6' piece of 1/4" X 1" stock at a local Lowe's. Cut it into 2 pieces, clamp the two together and drill it every 1/2" Now, rivet it together. By the last one you'll either be pretty good or know you need some assistance riveting your 1919. Most importantly, learn from your errors- don't repeat them.

Lastly- fix the comressor problem. Distractions like that are a recipe for disaster.

Commander47

· #7 · Jul 25, 2006

Actually, the gun doesn't look that bad.

Those "divits" are easy to remove. You can use one of those round rubber sanding wheels for a drill with fine to medium grit grinding paper. Not sandpaper, but the kind that you find in the grinder section. It works well.

I had that problem a long time ago with my compressor until I discovered it was the cheap extension cord I was using. If you are using a cheap extension cord, it will not handle the current the compressor needs. You may need a heavy one rated for the draw of the compressor.

Also, That air hammer thing is a huge pain. The absolute best way to set those rivits is with a press. If I do another gun, I will grind a little off the rivits cuz the ones I had from ORF were a bit long.

It looks to me like your big rivits came out pretty good. A little grinding on those and you'll be all set.

I do agree that the two big rounded ones on the bottom should probably be drilled out and redone. Just for aesthetics.

all and all....not bad.

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loboslanding

· #8 · Jul 25, 2006

Me personally, I'd redo them...it's not that hard.

If you redo it, leave the rivet 5/32" long, press real hard with the muffler gun, but go light on the trigger. I say again, put all your weight on the muffler gun so it doesn't hop on you, but light on the trigger with short bursts and those babies will come out good...guaranteed. You have to train your brain in that concept because mine tells me that if I lean on the gun hard I should pull the trigger hard.

You really need someone down at eye level to make sure the gun is straight up and to stop you when you are getting close to the surface.

Or parkerize it and go shoot it.

Also, you need to smash that 11/32" rivet some more...I can still see a ridge around it. Smash it flat as a pancake and if you think it's flat...get a bigger hammer

. I assume you're smashing it on both sides.

Kali Komrade

· #9 · Jul 25, 2006

Thats not too bad

Thats not too bad Chad I won't show you mine (they won't win a beauty contest either) but just go out there and enjoy your gun. I got a few rivets that were less than desirable at first drilled out those two and switched to a longer rivet. because I couldn't get a head on my rivets but I think I ringed my rivets on the bottom plate too not to worried about it now in the future I may go back and fix em up. Just shoot it (Insert Nike Swoosh here)

Hey Lobo I tried with all my might to make the protrusion of the rivet to work with the 5/32 length but they basically would start to flatten out into the chamfers in the bottom plate so I got a little longer rivet and ran em at 7/32
these were 90 degree rivets though...

loboslanding

· #10 · Jul 25, 2006

Kali, what chamfer in the bottom plate? Not supposed to chamfer the holes in the bottom plate...unless you got one of those OOW kits that had the rsp piece still intact and had the chamfers already there. If you did get one of those then, yes, you need the rivet longer, but most kits out there do not have chamfered bottom plate holes.

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Kali Komrade

· #11 · Jul 25, 2006

Mr. Lobo

Mr. Lobo,

I got my kit from Centerfire Systems yeah and unfortunately they had the chamfers on the bottom plate I figured I needed that longer rivet so I ordered some from my local supplier it worked out okay like I said I left them at 7/32 with those chamfers. Ringed the bottom plate over doing it but she's a shooter so not gonna worry about it right now. Next 1919 I'll be a little more reserved with the air hammer

Chad G

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jul 25, 2006

loboslanding said:
Me personally, I'd redo them...it's not that hard.

If you redo it, leave the rivet 5/32" long, press real hard with the muffler gun, but go light on the trigger. I say again, put all your weight on the muffler gun so it doesn't hop on you, but light on the trigger with short bursts and those babies will come out good...guaranteed. You have to train your brain in that concept because mine tells me that if I lean on the gun hard I should pull the trigger hard.
You really need someone down at eye level to make sure the gun is straight up and to stop you when you are getting close to the surface.

Or parkerize it and go shoot it.

Also, you need to smash that 11/32" rivet some more...I can still see a ridge around it. Smash it flat as a pancake and if you think it's flat...get a bigger hammer . I assume you're smashing it on both sides.

Well believe it or not Im the only one in my family that can see really good, this was a solo first time build, kinda reminds me of my first Auto Trans rebuild, shucks I think Ima gonna try to clean those rivets up alittle.

Flat as a pancake huh..... I can do that, I have a BFH. Im not smashing on bothsides, though I thought about it. Some of those rivets seem to work harden ie. get harder the more I smash 'em.

loboslanding said:
Kali, what chamfer in the bottom plate? Not supposed to chamfer the holes in the bottom plate...unless you got one of those OOW kits that had the rsp piece still intact and had the chamfers already there. If you did get one of those then, yes, you need the rivet longer, but most kits out there do not have chamfered bottom plate holes.

You really oughtta put that in your sequence checklist- about the OOW kit. That is what mine was and by the time I had the rivets out I had to clean up the chamfers anyhoo.

loboslanding

· #13 · Jul 26, 2006

Hey chad, yeah you need to smash it on one side and then flip it and smash the other side and keep doing that 'til they are flat...taking time about from side to side. The lsp has a gradual chamfer that is tapered the entire thickness of the plate and not just at the mouth of the hole like we do the rsp so you gotta make sure the rivet expands and fills in that gradual taper in the lsp to lock it in place before you grind it off. Hopefully you left enough rivet hanging out the left side to to that.

Thx Kali for clearing that up.

Good luck.

GWR1

· #14 · Jul 26, 2006

".... reminds me of my first Auto Trans rebuild, shucks I think Ima gonna try to clean those rivets up alittle.

Flat as a pancake huh..... I can do that, I have a BFH. Im not smashing on bothsides, though I thought about it. Some of those rivets seem to work harden ie. get harder the more I smash 'em...."

Sorta reminds me of the first time I .....

Kali Komrade

· #15 · Jul 26, 2006

Yeah good you told em

Yeah good you told em to smash in those trunion rivets on the LSP Lobo. I always start mine setting the finished end first then go to smashing the unfinished end and keep flipping back and forth if its gotta go into a chamfer. You can really tell how nice and tight they get doing it that way. I think I used a 5lb mini sledge and it was still a lot of pounding. I was shaking the two bays next to me. they thought I was gonna tear the place down, wouldn't be the first time...

Think the next project is gonna be a steamer though...

gunslingerdoc

· #16 · Jul 26, 2006

I had a few 'oops' rivets when I built my first 1919. You can dress them pretty well with a jeweler's file. I also found making a hand held domed punch out of drill rod (1/2") really helps tighten them up - make sure you round the edges to avoid the 'kisses' from hitting the receiver. When I was done mine looked as good or better than the originals on the left side.

My first 1919 is more finicky than my revamped ORF. It still has occasional quirky things go wrong (it may be possessed), but I BUILT IT - which is pretty cool. Ive build others that work better, but I cant seem to let that first one go (maybe its the challenge....? No that's not it. Im too busy f'ing with SA mg-42 builds and their quirks!).

Just remember you can always answer," I built it." when someone at the range asks who you bought it from. I think that's pretty cool!

c322348

· #17 · Jul 26, 2006

1. Keep the rivet gun normal to the surface (parallel to the rivet shank).
2. Put medium pressure on the gun and keep pressure on it as you pull the trigger until you are done.
3. Go a little bit at a time (short bursts) so you don't go too far and put a ring (or a smile) around the rivet. You don't "spray and pray" when shooting rivets.
4. Loose holes or chamfers require longer rivets and are more challenging to do well to keep them from nailing over. If you are careful you can redirect the head a little- but sometimes you just have to drill them out and try again. Don't redirect the rivet head when you are almost done because then you will hit the sideplate and create a smile.
5. Heat is not necessary.
6. You can hold the rivet set in place on the rivet with the fingertips of your free hand to aid stability (unless you've heated it with a torch...).
7. Best method I've found to remove rivets is to grind the head flush and just punch them out. If you drill them out you will oversize the hole and make riveting more difficult.
8. Feel free to remove your rivets, polish the sideplate and lower plate with a Scotchbrite wheel to remove the dents and try again. Rivets are cheap compared to the value of the gun you have created.
9. Have fun! The rivet gun is your friend. Don't be afraid of it.
10. Cheap air hammers will work, but their rate of fire and capacity is not optimum. OK for one or two builds, but an aircraft rivet gun (4X) is the best for this application. You can get aircraft rivet guns on eBay all day for $20-$60. Get a 5/32 rivet set and a flush set to shoot the rivets with. Most common is a .401 shank.

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MSG

· #18 · Jul 26, 2006

5/32 is the way to go. I tried several sizes before settling on it. If you want total control, rivet by hand. I get good results with a 3# sledge.

MSG

KevinT

· #19 · Jul 26, 2006

It might not be factory but..

Well since this is my first 1919 build and I've been riveting on airplanes for seventeen years, I'm just going to shoot 'em down and leave the bucktail flat.
No smileys No donkey tracks. It's a shooter not a museum piece. KevinT

c322348

· #20 · Jul 27, 2006

That'll work!

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