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I didn't write this - I'm just the messenger.

On November 20, 2007 the United States Supreme Court made a historical decision regarding Constitutional Rights. The case, District of Columbia v. Heller, being the first case successfully appealed to the Supreme Court based on the Second Amendment since the flawed and unresolved case of US v. Miller circa 1939, had the result of shocking the political landscape across the nation.

In May of 2007, the DC Court of Appeals overturned a lower court ruling that had favored the 1976 ban on handguns in the city. The city appealed to the en banc court in the hopes that they would reverse the appeals decision. This did not happen. The en banc court upheld the appeal decision based on Second Amendment grounds leaving the District of Columbia in an unenviable position.

This set the stage for the resulting appeal to the United States Supreme Court. From this point on precedence was being set. The court, unable to reach a satisfactory outcome during the first discussion regarding cert, tabled the issue until a meeting could be arranged with all parties involved. This meeting took place on the morning of November 20, 2007.

During this gathering, the Court clarified the question for simplification to the issue and in doing so, broadened the question setting the stage for a far reaching decision. The initial appeal from the District of Columbia was based solely on the perceived right of the city to restrict the ability of the citizens to possess handguns of any type. Along with this was the perception forwarded by the District of Columbia that the Court was overstepping the Constitutional bounds of law based on the District being a Federal property and not a state.

The initial plaintiff in the case, Mr. Heller responded not with a request for denial but with a separate appeal requesting that the lower court ruling be upheld, and that the Supreme Court define both the sentence and meaning of the Second Amendment.

In response to the dual appeal, the Supreme Court gathered with the parties of the case and formulated a single Constitutional question that would satisfy the underlying issue at hand. Taking three sections of law covering registration of handguns, carry of unlicensed handguns, and mandatory storage and disassembly of long guns, the Court expanded the scope of the case.

This expansion has set the stage for a Constitutional ruling that will either result in the incorporation of the Second Amendment under the Fourteenth Amendment or a flurry of challenges to the validity of the remainder of the Bill of Rights. The thought behind this is based on the controversy surrounding the two stances on the Second Amendment. One being the “Collective Rights” stance put forth by various scholars and special interest groups. The theory behind this stance is that the “militia clause” dictates that the right is held by the States rather than the individual due to the perceived control of militia activity by the States. The counter argument is the “Individual Right” stance. This stance is based upon the phrase “The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

If the Court upholds the latter argument, the end result will be a dramatic change in the basis of firearms laws nationwide. It would not be unreasonable to expect all restrictions on firearms based on function, physical characteristics, place of origin, or caliber to be ruled unconstitutional. This would leave the Government severely restricted in the ability to regulate or prohibit access to almost all types of small arms and other weapons covered under the Second Amendment.

Should the Court overturn the lower court ruling based upon the formulation of the question and the appeal by the District of Columbia, then the fundamental understanding of the language of the Constitution is challenged. The definition of “The People” will be changed leaving open the likely possibility that all rights enumerated in the Amendments of the Constitution being revisited in the Courts. Such a decision would affect the entire Bill of Rights and thousands of laws protecting the citizens of the United States.

This is a key issue that must be addressed by the Supreme Court leaving their options very limited in scope. Given the possible crisis such a ruling would create, it would be very likely that the court will find unanimously for Heller upholding the meaning of the People in the Constitution. The phrasing of the question brought forth by the Court suggests that the status of the Second Amendment will be addressed as well. Incorporation as a civil right under the Fourteenth Amendment would resolve many post decision issues that would arise from this case.

Case law dating back more than a century and a half would reinforce incorporation of the Second Amendment as the proper and correct approach. This would also rectify the unresolved issue left in US v. Miller (1939) where the decision and remanding back to the lower court for clarification has left the issue unanswered.

While District of Columbia v. Heller is fundamentally a Second Amendment case, issues such as right to privacy, freedom to assemble, freedom of speech, and others are all at risk with this suit. Political ramifications aside, the security of the nation may rest on the decision the Court hands down as well due to the current threat of terrorism.

On the political front, this case will also have an impact on the validity of sections of law such as the Hughes Amendment (US 18 Section 922 (o)) based on Interstate Commerce. It will also prohibit the ability of State and local governments to regulate firearms to a great degree.

Documentation from the era of the founding of the United States suggests that control of arms was a critical factor in the revolution as much so as taxation without representation was. The question must be asked, as repugnant as the possibility may be, will the citizens respond with violence should the Court find in favor of the District of Columbia? While it may seem unthinkable, the possibility must be addressed due to the fervor and deep passion involved with the issue of the Second Amendment. Another reason this is important is that should violence result from a poor decision by the Court, would this leave the nation vulnerable to unforeseen adversaries? Again, as distasteful as this may be, it must be addressed by the Court.

The possibility of the Court taking notice of enforcement actions by the Government is high due to questionable cases such as US v. Weaver (1992), US v. Wrenn (2005), US v. Kwan (2007), and US v. Stewart (2003) where the basis of the arrests brought forth a question of violation of constitutional rights. Other factors that must be considered are actions taken against citizens with questionable justification. An example of such a controversial instance would be the standoff between Federal Agents and David Koresh along with his followers. In US v. Kwan, question of the legitimacy of the evidence brings forth a crucial question of objectives and conduct by the Government. That the Court may allow this to weigh in on their decision may be of great concern to some parties in the United States Government but will be a landmark of the legal system to the average citizen. Given the latitude the Court has when referencing documentation and other cases, the likelihood of any of these cases or similar cases being a key component to the decision is very great. The post decision repercussions regarding this would be far reaching and paramount to the future conduct of the Government when dealing with the citizens.

In conclusion, the District of Columbia v. Heller case, without the controversial aspect of the other plaintiffs who were found to be without standing in the lower court, will be one of the most important cases to ever come before the United States Supreme Court. The ramifications of the decision to be handed down sometime in the year 2008 will affect the nation in many ways that are separate from the issue of the Second Amendment. This decision may impact the international scene as well due to the world wide trade of arms and technology and the continuing efforts by international organizations to create a monopoly on force of arms. How this decision will impact the ability of the enemies of the United States to operate within its borders is unknown but history has shown time and time again that an armed populace secure in the ability to use arms in the defense of self and community have always been a detriment to crime and criminal abuse by a government.

With warmest regards-

The Ghost of Thomas Jefferson
 

· LEGENDARY BULLY!
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"Whenever the words of a law will bear two meanings, one of which will give effect to the law, and the other will defeat it, the former must be supposed to have been intended by the Legislature, because they could not intend that meaning, which would defeat their intention, in passing that law; and in a statute, as in a will, the intention of the party is to be sought after." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1808. ME 12:110

"On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449

I wonder how many will even see this thread,,, Sad.

Thanks for posting,,,
 

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How likely is it....

I had asked this question in another thread, but no one seemed to express any interest in it. I'll ask it again.

What is the likelyhood that the SCOTUS will reference early writings by framers to help discern what they actually intended with the second amendment?

If the likelyhood is high, then I think it seems more probable than not, that the second will be finally endorsed as an individual right. From a bunch of quotes that another poster had listed, it seemed crystal clear that having the general population armed, and free of any restrictions on their arms, was the leading purpose and goal of the second.

For whatever it's worth, threads like this should be seen on the homepage.
 

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hearing time frame

Anyone heard any further info on this case yet, I'm sure we won't hear much in the main stream media, any idea when the court is supposed to hear this case, this is a very important case for all of us here, but should be to all Americans.
 

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Anyone heard any further info on this case yet, I'm sure we won't hear much in the main stream media, any idea when the court is supposed to hear this case, this is a very important case for all of us here, but should be to all Americans.

Last i hears there isnt any decision expected until at least June. For the record, i really Doubt it's going to have as far-reaching effect as people are hoping. I think the court will restrict itself to a VERY narrow scope in this case..in the end it MIGHT (and that's a BIG might) affect NYC and Mass where the handgun laws are REALLy restrictive, and legislated to the point of being virtually impossible (NYC) and REALLY difficult (Ma)..but i dont see the court opening itself up to a flood of future cases based on this decision if they can help it.
 

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Thank you 7.62

Well, I concur, it probably will be very narrow in scope. BUT..... they have slowly eroded our rights in an insidious fashion. Therefore, winning them back, even on a small scale, is tipping the balance. How do we load our belts gentlemen? One round at a time. How can we win back our rights? One small step/law at a time. Remember, slow and steady, wins the race. Out.
 

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Anyone heard any further info on this case yet, I'm sure we won't hear much in the main stream media, any idea when the court is supposed to hear this case, this is a very important case for all of us here, but should be to all Americans.
They are scheduled to hear the case in March, and have a decision by June. Everybody needs to spread the word about this case. It's important to let others know just how big this hearing is, even if their not gun owners. If SCOTUS rules on favor of DC, then the second ammendment won't be the only one that is threatened!
 

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I figured I'd wander over into this snake pit of a forum and was not suprised to see how little attention this very important topic has received,, how little the whole forum has been utilized,,, out of sight,, out of mind.
If this was on the home page it would be buzzing,, it is for this reason that I have little hope for a secure free future in this country.

I know Shots is the head dog here, and will say nothing against him, but what has happened here is tantamont to what the liberal press has accomplished by burying important stories where nobody will ever read them.

This is why I have been fighting to keep Open Talk on the main page,,, it is the only place where you can talk about this sort of thing, and where you can spread the word.

I feel like I'm watching Sunday with Chris Matthews,,,,
 

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Roc Rat,

Here's a problem as I see it. I agree with what Shots is doing 100% +. We do NOT want everybody seeing us at odds with each other and with some of the folks who ARE on our side. With some of the stuff that has been going on lately, its not in our best intrests to have it on the front page.
It makes me very Unhappy to know we ourselves are the ones to blame for the Important Issues to be taken off the front page....Lou
 

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I figured I'd wander over into this snake pit of a forum and was not suprised to see how little attention this very important topic has received,, how little the whole forum has been utilized,,, out of sight,, out of mind.
If this was on the home page it would be buzzing,, it is for this reason that I have little hope for a secure free future in this country.

I know Shots is the head dog here, and will say nothing against him, but what has happened here is tantamont to what the liberal press has accomplished by burying important stories where nobody will ever read them.

This is why I have been fighting to keep Open Talk on the main page,,, it is the only place where you can talk about this sort of thing, and where you can spread the word.

I feel like I'm watching Sunday with Chris Matthews,,,,
No matter which way the decision goes I do not think it can be comparable to an end or beginning of our world. In any case it will be utilized by one side or the other in the on going campaign. If we win this it will give us much more fuel to the fire or the same for the opposition.
 

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Roc Rat,

Here's a problem as I see it. I agree with what Shots is doing 100% +. We do NOT want everybody seeing us at odds with each other and with some of the folks who ARE on our side. With some of the stuff that has been going on lately, its not in our best intrests to have it on the front page.
It makes me very Unhappy to know we ourselves are the ones to blame for the Important Issues to be taken off the front page....Lou
Guys, the solution implemented is not the right one.

The solution which should be implemented, is creating an additional category. Call it whatever they want, and restrict that category to NOT be on the home page, but place some sort of limitation on what can be in the open talk forum. For example, create a "rant and rave" forum, and make it clear that rants and raves do NOT belong in the open talk, leave open talk on the home page for friendly discussions etc. and push the rant and rave forum to the darkness, where people can get heated on a topic, and not have it out int he public eye. My opinion, for whatever it's worth.
 

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Nice opening read. If I didn't know better, I'd say we are 'all in' on the bill of rights debate.

Doubt the court would pull that big a trigger on 2A laws and restrictions, but it'll get folks thinking about it. Be fun for the gun industry to sue the NYC DA's of the country for a change.
 
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